do you believe in ALIENS?

[Link]

Point taken, TL. I understand what you're trying to say. But all I know about the micro organisms on Mars is some fuzzy picture taken there of some worm-like thingie. That's not convincing enough for me to be hard evidence of extraterrestrial life.

I also understand your opinion on probability, but why spend all that money on looking outside, when we don't even know half of what's going on on the inside? Of course you will say that's an entirely different discussion, but it really makes me wonder.

To go on about probability: I though we were discussing whether or not we believed in aliens; probability is another thing. Of course there's always a chance that aliens exist somewhere in the galaxy. What I was merely saying is that just stating that they are there (what Ziroc did) cannot simply be said just like that. Facts are necessary to support such a thing.
Aliens existing yes or no, or the probability of aliens existing are two different things.

As far as the probability goes, I already stated in my first reply that Drake's Equation deals with that matter. Understandably, and I feel that he is incorrect, Ziroc pointed out that Drake's Equation took oxygen as a 'must-have' for extraterrestrial life, which he does not, as you can see below.

N = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • L

Where:
- N = The number of civilizations in The Milky Way Galaxy whose electromagnetic emissions are detectable.
- R* =The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of intelligent life.
- fp = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.
- ne = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for life.
- fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears.
- fi = The fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges.
- fc = The fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.
- L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.

No oxygen in there, Ziroc, as you can see. [img]smile.gif[/img]

As you can see above, it depends on a lot of matters if life will evolve on a planet, or in the known universe. I don't know if you have ever thought about it, but the fact that we are here, discussing this topic, is something that has happened due to a coming together of certain circumstances. If one of those circumstances hadn't occurred, we'd not be here. If we would have two suns instead of one (which was a very close call, because Jupiter could have become one), we would not be here. It's just a very slim chance we're facing here. And then you'd have to calculate that that very same slim chance of life occurring on other planets outside of Earth would be there, well it's unimaginably small.
That's why I'm not convinced of extraterrastrial life, although I hope there is life outside of Earth. I wonder if all of you guys make a distinction between thinking aliens are there, and hoping they are there, because in this matter they might be taken together, when that shouldn't happen.

[Melusine]

Originally posted by LordKathen: Ya, I suppose your right. I was origanally commenting on the arrogance post earlier in the thread. Ironicaly to your reply to me, I seperated the theroies becouse I did not want speek for christians, just evolutionists. I just talked to Lady Aberdene about her view on aliens, and I stand corrected. As for the other point, thats exactly what we do is focus on our likes, not our dislikes. We alienate (for the most part) our philosophies only, not our love for each other or moral ideas. To give an example of the prejudgment around my town, somebody wrote a letter to our newspaper in the opinions column saying that it is arrogent for an athiest to be a leader of the boy scouts becouse athiests have no morals. I flew off the handle with this. I had no idea that kind of idea was still around. Hopefully you can see my frustration and quickness.

Quick OT reply to this...

Yes I can definitely see why you'd fly of the handle at something like that. I likewise get really frustrated at idiotic remarks like that. Anyway, back on topic... [img]smile.gif[/img]

[xanderwatts]

I beleive there may aliens on Europa, the moon of Jupiter.
Incidentally, anyone see 'Taken' I know this might old news in the USA but in England we're only up to Episode 6 or 7. I think it's really good!

[SomeGuy]

I have no idea really I don't have any proof they are out there or any proof they ar'nt so I am still unsure.

[Attalus]

I'm a Christian, and I believe there may indeed be alien life forms, even intelligent ones. But, on the other hand, I don't believe that we have been contacted by them. Space is a big place, and that faster-than-light thing is a lot harder to talk about to do. I don't believe that I have seen that about Drake's Equation before, Link, thanks for posting it.

[Kakero]

I believe that there is life out there. However, I surely hope that we humans are more advance than them ( remember how aliens nearly wipe out human in movie Independance Day ?) or physically stronger than them ( remember the movie Aliens where one alien can cause havoc on a spaceship? )

However, here's a thought for those aliens believers : If one guy come to you and say " A week ago I was abducted by aliens and they did experiment on me, here is the scar and over here is a scar as well " How come we'll laugh at him and calling him crazy?

[Link]

Originally posted by Kakero: However, here's a thought for those aliens believers : If one guy come to you and say " A week ago I was abducted by aliens and they did experiment on me, here is the scar and over here is a scar as well " How come we'll laugh at him and calling him crazy?

Comes close to my point as well. Why do we laugh at him? Because we don't believe that it has happened. We don't believe it, because he hasn't got any evidence for it. Same goes for extraterrestrial life, IMHO. Because there is no proper evidence yet, we cannot simply assume that it's there.
The example posted by Kakero simply views the matter from a different angle. We somehow do believe in aliens, but when something like this happens (someone tells you he or she has been abducted) we laugh in his face. Strange.

[Rokenn]

Well if we are the only life in the Universe it sure would be a waste of all the space.

In our own backyard we have two planets with a very good chance of hold non-terrestial life, Europa and Titan. As for extra-solar life, I read that they (astronomers) feel in just another 5-7 years they will have the tech to start finding Earth-size planets in other systems.

As for the chances of finding intelligent life out there, well I'm not convinced we have found it on this planet yet....

[johnny]

Does someone think Mork wasn't really from Ork ? Sheesh.... all these years they had me fooled.

[Callum Kerr]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Quote: Originally posted by Link: IMHO it's absolutely not silly or arrogant to think we're the only ones in the universe. Why would we think otherwise? There hasn't been a single clue of life existing outside of Earth. And that's what scientists do: they state something, and that hypothesis is held until somebody proves it false. Why is one and one two? Not because it simply is the way it is, but because we haven't proven yet that it's not true, so we agreed on that matter with each other. Same goes for life existing elsewhere. Until discovered, it's not there. In my honest opinion of course.

So atoms didn't exist until they were discovered? Pluto didn't exist until it was discovered? Just checking. Your theory sounds like spontaneous generation.[/QUOTE]Its like the old (bad) joke: What was the largest island in the world before Australia was discovered... ummm ah er Greenland?... Australia was still there before it was discovered...

And I believe in Aliens more or less... I have an encyclopedeia of UFOs and ALien encounters... and it sounds pretty convincing... although a book discrediting all of that would probably be convincing as well... but I think that the universe is too big for there not to be other life... and i still can't get my head round how the universe is spherical, or what is life... what is it that gives us a life force? Why are we animate? *chuckles evilly at the thought of people trying to answer those questions and prolonging this debate for 10 pages....* muahahahaha [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]