D & D gods and religion - Page 2

Galadria · 02-20-2002, 06:19 PM

Sazerac, I agree with you. All we need in RPG'ing is another media firestorm about something that 99% of us don't give a hoot about, anyway. In my roleplaying, I always use Helm as a Christ-figure, so I don't feel guilty when I invoke Him.

andora20 · 02-20-2002, 06:30 PM

Wasn't there a Babylonian god called Bhaal? Sometimes the RPG's could be based on gods of ancient religions, and unless the guy said he was worshiping a god from DnD world, maybe he was unaware that the god he believed in was also from a game?

[ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: andora20 ]

Sazerac · 02-20-2002, 06:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by andora20:
[QB Wasn't there a Babylonian god called Bhaal? Sometimes the RPG's could be based on gods of ancient religions, and unless the guy said he was worshiping a god from DnD world, maybe he was unaware that the god he believed in was also from a game?[/QB]

Andora, could you change your color scheme? Black on dark brown is a pain in the rump to see! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Actually, the name of the god was B'aal, which was the Phoenecian god of agriculture. B'aal was demonized when the Hebrews returned to Israel and began to convert the Philistines and other races in the region to the worship of Yahweh. Some of the best stories in the Old Testament (Samson & Delilah, Ahab & Jezebel, Elijah, etc.) concern the old B'aal worship. B'aal, from what I can tell, originally wasn't an evil god like Moloch, to whom the indigent tribes sacrificed their children. (Notice that Moloch is the name of a type of Demon in AD&D as well, sort of like a Balor).

Garnet FalconDance · 02-20-2002, 07:33 PM

It's ok, Sazerac. I took no offense at all (seldom do around here--we're all loons to some degree about something).

Evidently this guy was very definitive when he claimed to worship D & D god(s).

Who knows. But I agree that this would just about be all we need to send the fanatic fringe into spasms over rpging!

Lavi, haven't you learned yet there is no such thing as coincidence?

[ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: Garnet FalconDance ]

Sir Kenyth · 02-21-2002, 10:05 AM

You don't have to feel guilty to role play in a game a bit. It's just imaginary adventures. It's just like reading an interactive book. Have fun! The problem is when people blur the boundary between fantasy and reality. It happens a lot, and not just to RPG players. As a matter of fact, I would say the world of porn and deviant sex has a lot more crazies than RPGs could ever have. The problem occurs when someone sees their reality as so burdensome, that the fantasy world becomes the real one to them. They want it to be real so badly that they convince themselves that it is so.

norompanlasolas · 02-21-2002, 11:12 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Larry_OHF:

Er...is it just as bad to be studying Tolkien's Elvish Language?

I know people who are quite fluent in it, and I have studied it a bit.

That is not totally the same, but close enough...

Yet, I have never heard of anyone actually worshipping a D&D God, unless they are so into their D&D character, that they start to think themselves into the fantasy world...

larry, i dont think its quite the same. i mean, tolkiens languages are based upon deep cultural significance and based on real languages, and have nothing to do with religion. plus the books that give them background are not rpgs, they are real books with meaningful stories. tolkiens languages (there are many, not only elvish) are so complicated, and so well thought out, many experts single them out as a perfect example of a creation of a language from ground zero, from one person. even those that are less developed by tolkien due to lack of time (well, he died) are amazingly complex. take adunaic, for example. he managed to create an entire language set with distinct rules with just a couple of words and phrases. simply genius.

regarding the people that study these languages, the main difference with the person worshipping ad&d gods, is that they dont worship tolkien, nor the languages, nor the gods in lotr. they are just scholars or tolkien fans who took it upon them to study a language that they liked. btw, anyone who wants to know more about this subject, go to this page. its the most complete and serious work on tolkiens invented languages.

http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf

Cerek the Barbaric · 02-21-2002, 12:43 PM

Just out of curiousity, Garnet, which D&D god(s) did this person claim to worship?

Since "Lady Luck" is a commonly accepted concept in American society, I can see how someone might blur that with worshipping Tymora (I think she's the goddes of thieves and luck).

Larry, learning Tolkien elvish is no different than a "Trekkie" learning the Klingon or Romulan language. As Garnet pointed out, it's a great way to "talk in code" with someone else who understands the language. (BTW, Garnet, I think the idea of you and your HS boyfriend writing to each other in Hobbit is just tooooo cool).

Saz, I knew immediately who you were referring to as the "religious lunatic fringe". I was soooooo tempted to begin this thread with a "tongue-in-cheek" response from a "mad-as-hell, Bible-thumping Southern Baptist"....but that would triviliaze how truly unfortunate this entire situation is.

I'm saddened for the person in question because of his apparantly delusional state of mind...and I'm saddened for gamers because - as you pointed out - it is EXACTLY this type of occurrance that "fans the flames" of AD&D being labeled a social taboo.

It's ironic that...when Gygax first came out with the game...it was considered a revolutionary product and several schools actually incorporated it into their Advanced Curriculums because of the creativeness and imagination it inspired.

Sazerac · 02-21-2002, 01:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
Saz, I knew immediately who you were referring to as the "religious lunatic fringe". I was soooooo tempted to begin this thread with a "tongue-in-cheek" response from a "mad-as-hell, Bible-thumping Southern Baptist"....but that would triviliaze how truly unfortunate this entire situation is.

I'm saddened for the person in question because of his apparantly delusional state of mind...and I'm saddened for gamers because - as you pointed out - it is EXACTLY this type of occurrance that "fans the flames" of AD&D being labeled a social taboo.

It's ironic that...when Gygax first came out with the game...it was considered a revolutionary product and several schools actually incorporated it into their Advanced Curriculums because of the creativeness and imagination it inspired.

I actually know as many religious people who like AD&D as those who don't; many who are regular players. The struggle for good vs. evil has long been a theme in religion, and AD&D lets people play that out. I've seen Baptist lay and youth ministers and Catholic priests play the game, and are fine with it. Like I said, it's the lunatic fringe you have to watch out for. The 1/2 of a percent of the population out there that yells at the top of their lungs so you think that it's a lot more than what it is.

They're also the same ones who ban (or burn) books and records because it doesn't "jive" with their blinkered world view.

Ah well...

Garnet FalconDance · 02-21-2002, 04:21 PM

Sorry, Cerek, he didn't say exactly which one(s) as this was not important to the thread in question, merely an illustration of sorts. Too bad. One thing I've learned and constantly amazes me--actually commented to Budha this morn on it as I was relating the info--was that if it had been a discussion bere, it would have not only digressed but been a great deal more in-depth and thought through!

Yep, it was cool to correspond in hobbit. Recently I dled dwarven runes just for a goof (well, they're handy for story writing, too, as background info) and was telling the kids how I used to actually use a 'made-up' language in rl. They all thought that was just too weird and mom had obviously lost her last marble.

Heck, I *love* to use the phrase "what in the nine hell do you think you're doing?" and watch people try to figure it out [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Talthyr Malkaviel · 02-21-2002, 04:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:

Heck, I *love* to use the phrase "what in the nine hell do you think you're doing?" and watch people try to figure it out [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Heh heh, weirdness must be very widespread, I say that often to my friends and other people, and the look of confusion when they hear it's so funny.
But then, I'm like that, I often start talking in slightly archaic English.

02-20-2002, 06:19 PM	#11
Galadria 20th Level Warrior Join Date: November 3, 2001 Location: Texas Age: 54 Posts: 2,830	Sazerac, I agree with you. All we need in RPG'ing is another media firestorm about something that 99% of us don't give a hoot about, anyway. In my roleplaying, I always use Helm as a Christ-figure, so I don't feel guilty when I invoke Him. __________________ Lady Galadria,Goddess\' Equal of the O.R.T.; [img]\"http://havak.db-forge.com/portraits/bitmaps/wlf180L.bmp\" alt=\" - \" /><br />\"Romance at short notice was her specialty.\" - Saki <br />Founder of the IW Branch of the Anti-Anomen Society

02-20-2002, 06:30 PM	#12
andora20 Manshoon Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Ireland Age: 46 Posts: 201	Wasn't there a Babylonian god called Bhaal? Sometimes the RPG's could be based on gods of ancient religions, and unless the guy said he was worshiping a god from DnD world, maybe he was unaware that the god he believed in was also from a game? [ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: andora20 ] __________________ \"He looked right through me, with soniforous almond eyes, don\'t even know what that means, must remember to write it down\"

02-20-2002, 06:51 PM	#13
Sazerac Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Monroe, LA Age: 60 Posts: 7,387	quote: Originally posted by andora20: [QB Wasn't there a Babylonian god called Bhaal? Sometimes the RPG's could be based on gods of ancient religions, and unless the guy said he was worshiping a god from DnD world, maybe he was unaware that the god he believed in was also from a game?[/QB] Andora, could you change your color scheme? Black on dark brown is a pain in the rump to see! [img]smile.gif[/img] Actually, the name of the god was B'aal, which was the Phoenecian god of agriculture. B'aal was demonized when the Hebrews returned to Israel and began to convert the Philistines and other races in the region to the worship of Yahweh. Some of the best stories in the Old Testament (Samson & Delilah, Ahab & Jezebel, Elijah, etc.) concern the old B'aal worship. B'aal, from what I can tell, originally wasn't an evil god like Moloch, to whom the indigent tribes sacrificed their children. (Notice that Moloch is the name of a type of Demon in AD&D as well, sort of like a Balor). __________________ "And all my days are trances, and all my nightly dreams, Are where thy grey eye glances, and where thy footstep gleams, In what ethereal dances, by what eternal streams..."

02-20-2002, 07:33 PM	#14
Garnet FalconDance Mephistopheles Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: deep within the sylvan splendor.... Age: 60 Posts: 1,443	It's ok, Sazerac. I took no offense at all (seldom do around here--we're all loons to some degree about something). Evidently this guy was very definitive when he claimed to worship D & D god(s). Who knows. But I agree that this would just about be all we need to send the fanatic fringe into spasms over rpging! Lavi, haven't you learned yet there is no such thing as coincidence? [ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: Garnet FalconDance ] __________________ "Nature tells every secret once." Ralph Waldo Emerson

02-21-2002, 10:05 AM	#15
Sir Kenyth Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: somewhere Age: 54 Posts: 1,785	You don't have to feel guilty to role play in a game a bit. It's just imaginary adventures. It's just like reading an interactive book. Have fun! The problem is when people blur the boundary between fantasy and reality. It happens a lot, and not just to RPG players. As a matter of fact, I would say the world of porn and deviant sex has a lot more crazies than RPGs could ever have. The problem occurs when someone sees their reality as so burdensome, that the fantasy world becomes the real one to them. They want it to be real so badly that they convince themselves that it is so. __________________ Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss.

02-21-2002, 11:12 AM	#16
norompanlasolas Avatar Join Date: November 13, 2001 Location: madrid, spain... made in argentina Age: 47 Posts: 569	quote: Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Er...is it just as bad to be studying Tolkien's Elvish Language? I know people who are quite fluent in it, and I have studied it a bit. That is not totally the same, but close enough... Yet, I have never heard of anyone actually worshipping a D&D God, unless they are so into their D&D character, that they start to think themselves into the fantasy world... larry, i dont think its quite the same. i mean, tolkiens languages are based upon deep cultural significance and based on real languages, and have nothing to do with religion. plus the books that give them background are not rpgs, they are real books with meaningful stories. tolkiens languages (there are many, not only elvish) are so complicated, and so well thought out, many experts single them out as a perfect example of a creation of a language from ground zero, from one person. even those that are less developed by tolkien due to lack of time (well, he died) are amazingly complex. take adunaic, for example. he managed to create an entire language set with distinct rules with just a couple of words and phrases. simply genius. regarding the people that study these languages, the main difference with the person worshipping ad&d gods, is that they dont worship tolkien, nor the languages, nor the gods in lotr. they are just scholars or tolkien fans who took it upon them to study a language that they liked. btw, anyone who wants to know more about this subject, go to this page. its the most complete and serious work on tolkiens invented languages. http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf __________________ no

02-21-2002, 12:43 PM	#17
Cerek the Barbaric Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 29, 2001 Location: North Carolina Age: 61 Posts: 3,257	Just out of curiousity, Garnet, which D&D god(s) did this person claim to worship? Since "Lady Luck" is a commonly accepted concept in American society, I can see how someone might blur that with worshipping Tymora (I think she's the goddes of thieves and luck). Larry, learning Tolkien elvish is no different than a "Trekkie" learning the Klingon or Romulan language. As Garnet pointed out, it's a great way to "talk in code" with someone else who understands the language. (BTW, Garnet, I think the idea of you and your HS boyfriend writing to each other in Hobbit is just tooooo cool). Saz, I knew immediately who you were referring to as the "religious lunatic fringe". I was soooooo tempted to begin this thread with a "tongue-in-cheek" response from a "mad-as-hell, Bible-thumping Southern Baptist"....but that would triviliaze how truly unfortunate this entire situation is. I'm saddened for the person in question because of his apparantly delusional state of mind...and I'm saddened for gamers because - as you pointed out - it is EXACTLY this type of occurrance that "fans the flames" of AD&D being labeled a social taboo. It's ironic that...when Gygax first came out with the game...it was considered a revolutionary product and several schools actually incorporated it into their Advanced Curriculums because of the creativeness and imagination it inspired. __________________ [img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth

02-21-2002, 01:04 PM	#18
Sazerac Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Monroe, LA Age: 60 Posts: 7,387	quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: Saz, I knew immediately who you were referring to as the "religious lunatic fringe". I was soooooo tempted to begin this thread with a "tongue-in-cheek" response from a "mad-as-hell, Bible-thumping Southern Baptist"....but that would triviliaze how truly unfortunate this entire situation is. I'm saddened for the person in question because of his apparantly delusional state of mind...and I'm saddened for gamers because - as you pointed out - it is EXACTLY this type of occurrance that "fans the flames" of AD&D being labeled a social taboo. It's ironic that...when Gygax first came out with the game...it was considered a revolutionary product and several schools actually incorporated it into their Advanced Curriculums because of the creativeness and imagination it inspired. I actually know as many religious people who like AD&D as those who don't; many who are regular players. The struggle for good vs. evil has long been a theme in religion, and AD&D lets people play that out. I've seen Baptist lay and youth ministers and Catholic priests play the game, and are fine with it. Like I said, it's the lunatic fringe you have to watch out for. The 1/2 of a percent of the population out there that yells at the top of their lungs so you think that it's a lot more than what it is. They're also the same ones who ban (or burn) books and records because it doesn't "jive" with their blinkered world view. Ah well... __________________ "And all my days are trances, and all my nightly dreams, Are where thy grey eye glances, and where thy footstep gleams, In what ethereal dances, by what eternal streams..."

02-21-2002, 04:21 PM	#19
Garnet FalconDance Mephistopheles Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: deep within the sylvan splendor.... Age: 60 Posts: 1,443	Sorry, Cerek, he didn't say exactly which one(s) as this was not important to the thread in question, merely an illustration of sorts. Too bad. One thing I've learned and constantly amazes me--actually commented to Budha this morn on it as I was relating the info--was that if it had been a discussion bere, it would have not only digressed but been a great deal more in-depth and thought through! Yep, it was cool to correspond in hobbit. Recently I dled dwarven runes just for a goof (well, they're handy for story writing, too, as background info) and was telling the kids how I used to actually use a 'made-up' language in rl. They all thought that was just too weird and mom had obviously lost her last marble. Heck, I love to use the phrase "what in the nine hell do you think you're doing?" and watch people try to figure it out [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] __________________ "Nature tells every secret once." Ralph Waldo Emerson

02-21-2002, 04:30 PM	#20
Talthyr Malkaviel Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: Land of the Britons Age: 37 Posts: 3,224	quote: Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance: *Heck, I love* to use the phrase "what in the nine hell do you think you're doing?" and watch people try to figure it out [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]** Heh heh, weirdness must be very widespread, I say that often to my friends and other people, and the look of confusion when they hear it's so funny. But then, I'm like that, I often start talking in slightly archaic English. __________________ Resident cantankerous sorcerer of the Clan HADB<br />and Sorcerous Nuttella salesman of the O.R.T<br /> <br /><br />Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny! Can I drill you about this?

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