Patriot II: The law that ate our civil liberties

[Rokenn]

Patriot II

Here a few things that are reported to be in the bill:

* Conduct domestic wiretapping without court order for 15 days following a congressional authorization of use of force or an attack on the United States.

* Secretly detain citizens.

* Deport any alien, including green-card holders, who are convicted of drug possession or an aggravated felony.

* Access a citizen's credit reports without a subpoena.

* Abolish federal court "consent decrees" that limit police surveillance of non-criminal organizations and public events. (of course if you live in Denver this is already the case...)

* Criminalize the use of encryption software in the commission or planning of a felony.

* Apply strict gag rules to those subpoenaed by a grand jury.

* Collect DNA from suspected terrorists and indeed from any individual whose DNA might assist terror investigations.

* Extend authorization periods for secret wiretaps and Internet surveillance.

* Ease restrictions on the use of secret evidence.

Just remember we have always been at war with Oceania

[Seraph]

* Criminalize the use of encryption software in the commission or planning of a felony.

Is this one really that bad?

[Gangrell]

Huh? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

[Bardan the Slayer]

* Conduct domestic wiretapping without court order for 15 days following a congressional authorization of use of force or an attack on the United States.

A disgrace. One more step towards conducting surveillance on anyone they want, for whatever reason they want, any time they want.

* Secretly detain citizens.

Disgrace. Anybody who needs to be told why isn't worth arguing with, unless they were a great fan of Stalinesque regimes.

* Deport any alien, including green-card holders, who are convicted of drug possession or an aggravated felony.

Hmm ... speaking as someone who is going to probably be trying to live in the USA, this one isn't so bad. If you go to another country to live, you should be expected to follow the damn laws.

* Access a citizen's credit reports without a subpoena.

Disgraceful.

* Abolish federal court "consent decrees" that limit police surveillance of non-criminal organizations and public events. (of course if you live in Denver this is already the case...)

Disgraceful. As I've said before, another step towards conducting surveillance on anyone, anytime, anywhere, anywhy.

* Criminalize the use of encryption software in the commission or planning of a felony.

Hmm ... again, I don't have a problem with this, *if* it can be proved that it was a serious attempt to plan a felony, and not two hiogh school kids emailing each other, saying "When i grow up, I'm gonna rob a bank!"

* Apply strict gag rules to those subpoenaed by a grand jury.

Not knowing the ins and outs of the American legal system, I'm going to withhold judgement here.

* Collect DNA from suspected terrorists and indeed from any individual whose DNA might assist terror investigations.

Any individual? No way. Technically, anyone in the USA could have to submit their DNA, as using it to eliminate them from a terrorist hunt would be classified as 'assisting' the government. Just another one of a long series of attempts by governments to get their hands on DNA databases of the population. Now they're throwing in the word "terrorist" to scare people into supporting it.

* Extend authorization periods for secret wiretaps and Internet surveillance.

Again, I'll withhold judgement on this until I know more.

* Ease restrictions on the use of secret evidence.

'Hell no' is my initial reaction, but again, I'd have to know more before giving a definitive position.

[harleyquinn]

Got news for you all, if you fly on Delta, your credit reports and banking records are going to be checked and the airlines are going to start doing it for all flights leaving 6 airports for now, but all down the road (last I knew, they hadn't said which 6 yet). This ticks me off. The gov't is taking too much of our civil liberties away and they are getting people to go along with it to "prevent terrorism". Anyone that thinks this isn't that bad of a thing, go to the library and get some history books and read what was happening in the Soviet Union when Lennon died and Stalin took over. It didn't go immeadiately into the purges and gulags. It started out with a lot of the same things that are going on now in our country. I'm not at all saying that we will turn into the horror that happened there. Hopefully the system of checks and balances in this country will prevent that. I'm just saying, why even start down that path. No one has the right to see my records unless I'm applying for credit. My solution. I will no longer fly any airline that participates in this. I will also let the airlines know how I feel and join the ACLU. Normally I find many of their comments out there, but with what's going on lately, I feel it's getting too out of hand to stand by.
I'm not slamming Bush or any other one person. If it was just him or Rumsfield, then these laws wouldn't be getting passed because neither of them have the power to pass them on their own. Our "representatives" in Washington are all jumping on a bandwagon of fear because of 9/11 and it's up to us to rope them in.
Ok, off my soapbox. Hope I didn't offend anyone with my post, I tried really hard not to put anything in it that would sound like I was attacking any one person.

[Azred]

How could credit reports mean anything relating to terrorism or your moral worth as a person? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] I don't even agree to credit reports as a condition of employment...then again, mine isn't perfect. [img]graemlins/5bloodymurder.gif[/img]

Those who are obsessively pursuing terrorists are starting to cross into extremely dangerous territory. Granted, the Constitution is applicable only to American citizens, but its spirit and the spirit of the Declaration of Independence apply to all people.

Any Constitutional law scholars out there? Are there any guidelines under which the Constitution could be suspended? [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img]

[Earthdog]

Seems like this subject hops right onto Gun Control and why they want to disarm American Citizens..............

This seriously pisses me off and I dont even live there anymore. This is BS. ANYbody can easily be classed in one of their little groups. When they start detaining people and not even their mom knows... Nah, this has got to be stopped. This is Nazi Germany all over again.

George Orwell was right, but I dont think he really came close. Big Brother is HERE.