USA - Page 9

WOLFGIR · 08-20-2002, 04:02 AM

Well I think this link will shed some small light on the Mongolia/Chineese subjcet.
http://www.leader-values.com/leader%20values/Lead21.htm

This is the phrase you are looking for perhaps Moni??
"Khubilai Khan, later the first Yuan Emperor of China."

Genghis got caught up in the war with the Muslims.

08-20-2002, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WOLFGIR:
Well I think this link will shed some small light on the Mongolia/Chineese subjcet.
http://www.leader-values.com/leader%20values/Lead21.htm

This is the phrase you are looking for perhaps Moni??
"Khubilai Khan, later the first Yuan Emperor of China."

Genghis got caught up in the war with the Muslims.

Hey cool link! Khubilai Khan was Genghis Khan's youngest son. I was speaking of Genghis himself (hunting down book lol ............)
Ghengis Khan had been given the title "keeper of the frontier" (ja'utquri) by the Chin dynasty after he and the Ong Khan, at the Chin emperor's request and in a combined attack with the Chin army defeated the Tatars. This title and recognition put Genghis Khan and the Ong Khan in positions to pay tribute to the Chin dynasty. When the Chin Emperor died, Genghis Khan announced his abandonment of his relationship with the Chin emperors and refused the payment their ambassadors came to collect. He started a war against the Chin in 1211 that lasted well into the years beyond his death which is probably where Khubilai Khan comes into the picture but I dunno since I never studied much beyond the years after Genghis' death with the exception of The Yasa and its influence in the developing Asian cultures after the death of Genghis Khan.

EDIT: It was Toghrul, given the title of Ong (prince) by the Chin emperor for his defeat of the Tatars, who would from then on be known as the Ong-Khan. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 08-20-2002, 04:44 AM: Message edited by: Moni ]

Donut · 08-20-2002, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hesperex:
Donut, I as a British citizen myself I would have to disagree with you to some degree, (not about the spelling btw )
Yes an imigrant can become British in title, but British isnt just a word written on a passport ...to be British is something I consider very speacial and very unique ... you can not just become British overnight, British is something much more than that ...it is hard to describe what I mean infact I'm not even sure what I mean, but I am sure that British is something in the blood so to speak, it is a belief, a culture it is many things. I am not sure you can say the same about been an American to be honest ..but as I am not one I suppose it is impossible for me to say.

Yes Hesperex - that's why I added this line:

'That is if you are talking about becoming a BriTish citizen and getting a BriTish passport.'

But I would argue that what you describe is not being 'BriTish - but 'English'.

Donut · 08-20-2002, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moni:
But now China and Britain have remained completely innocent of commiting atrocities against members of mankind throughout the centuries! And no one hates them!!

I can only comment about BriTain but I would say that we run the US a close second when it comes to being 'hated'. Fortunately our colonial days are long gone now.

08-20-2002, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donut:

quote:
Originally posted by Moni:
But now China and Britain have remained completely innocent of commiting atrocities against members of mankind throughout the centuries! And no one hates them!!

I can only comment about BriTain but I would say that we run the US a close second when it comes to being 'hated'. Fortunately our colonial days are long gone now.[/QUOTE]I was only joking dear Donut.
I still don't think anybody should hate anybody else, no matter what their history or present day conflicts entail...mankind is going to be mankind the same now as in centuries past, just with different ways to distribute their atrocities against each other.

Oh yeah...*SMOOCH*
[img]tongue.gif[/img]
I know you hated that LOL

Kaltia · 08-20-2002, 06:20 AM

Okay, I'm one of those donut dubbed "still in school" before I begin

Secondly, we've all done bad thngs, as a race. it's learning to live past old enemities that I hope for.

As for education: A major part of my GCSE education for history is the US. From WW2 to Nixon, inc the cold war, I have to learn it all. And I won't lie, it's pretty damn fun [img]smile.gif[/img] But by talking to an American friend on MSN, I have learnt he's never learnt ANYTHING in school about european history. All through secondary school, I've learnt American, French, Russian and Japanese history. My school teaches languages: I have to take French, german and Spanish as languages. Yet I've learnt most of my american friends only take french, and even then, they don't do it for very long.

And before people preen and go on; we've all done bad things. People are shocked by the Holocaust, ignoring the fact that the russian Tsars executed hundreds of times that number of Jews. Australian colonists shot and nearly commited genocide with the aboriginals. British people have had a long history of killing people less than agreeable, mostly non-christians. Germany had the Nazis, 'nuff said there. Chinese people have traditionally hated europeans back for ages, since Britian's monopoly on china-grown opium. And the Americans have had the negros. (ku Klux Klan springs to mind)

My point being, all of us have made mistakes.

I say there is nothing wrong with any of us: the actions of the governments can determine the way the people of a country can be perceived by the rest of us. Bush is a monkey. I hate him for pulling out the Kouto (spelling...as well....) treaty because "There was no heavy ban on CO2 emissions on the third world countries". (and his million dollar/pound/rupee/franc/mark/euro whatever quote..."Most of the country's imports come from outside the country"). he's as thick as they come and I don't like his plan to flatten much of the US to get fossil fuels. I have read a nuetral report, and though he gives tax reductions and money to research renewable energy sources, the man is an IDIOT.

I see nothing wrong with americans as a race. Only George "Dubya" Bush.

K T Ong · 08-20-2002, 06:42 AM

I would have thought Kublai Khan was the grandson of Genghis Khan, not his son?

And Moni, wherever you got that thing about the Ong Khan from, I can tell you that my name (Ong) is just a Hokkien pronunciation of the Chinese name 'Wang'; it probably doesn't have any connection with the Mongols. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Well, given my somewhat larger eyes

, it is possible I might have some Mongolian (or Eurasian?) genes in me -- just as most modern Brits are probably a good mix of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Jute, Saxon, Danish, Norman etc...

And after all is said and done... Yes, let's let the past die and be friends, and make sure people like that Bushwacker don't ruin everything again. Okay, please, pretty pleeeeaaaase?...

08-20-2002, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by K T Ong:
I would have thought Kublai Khan was the grandson of Genghis Khan, not his son?

And Moni, wherever you got that thing about the Ong Khan from, I can tell you that my name (Ong) is just a Hokkien pronunciation of the Chinese name 'Wang'; it probably doesn't have any connection with the Mongols. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Well, given my somewhat larger eyes , it is possible I might have some Mongolian (or Eurasian?) genes in me -- just as most modern Brits are probably a good mix of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Jute, Saxon, Danish, Norman etc...

And after all is said and done... Yes, let's let the past die and be friends, and make sure people like that Bushwacker don't ruin everything again. Okay, please, pretty pleeeeaaaase?...

I said son because the site says so. I should have used quotation marks LOL but like I said, I didn't study much of the Mongol history beyond Genghis Khan's death other than The Yasa.
I associated your name with the interpretation of "prince". not the Mongols themselves. The name Ong was given to the Ong Khan by the Chin dynasty anyway so it would be Chinese and not Mongol.

(I think the Chinese, Mongols & all have the most interesting histories of all the people on the planet.) Historical records tell the people's stories rather than the outer facts and make it that much richer.

Americans themselves are a hodgepodge of races and cultures, myself included and I am even one of the exceptional breed that contains the genes of nearly half the european nations, Native American and even a touch of African. On the outside I am just another white girl LOL, well until I tan and then I look like a blue-eyed Apache [img]smile.gif[/img] .

I am hoping like hell that the American public opens their eyes to what the Bushwacker (lol) really is and does not allow him another term as The American Dictator, I mean President.

Know that I will vote for a loaf of stale bread before I put any marks down in his favor.

Calaethis Dragonsbane · 08-20-2002, 07:29 AM

Some of you were saying that imigrents cant become "British"... and being British is more then writing on a piece of paper... I suggest you stop there. You are coming VERY close to insulting me. For the record my Mother is 100% "pure" English, if there can be such a thing, (vikings, romans mingled with English etc...) and my Father is well, not British. Malaysian. So syaing what you were saying CAN VERY EASILY be taken the WRONG way. I'll give you the benift of the doubt THIS time, but NEXT time, please be MORE tactful.

on a side note, I think one of the reasons MOST ppl "dislike" amercia is the stereotypical attitute they see so much i.e. "We are the Best" etc, and "God bless America" ~ note not the REST of the world JUST America. Now *I* dont have any problems against (most) of the American ppl; in fact, I'd be honoured to call a couple friends. But the Goverment? not so sure. lol; for the record, I dislike OUR own Goverement... I personally think that Blair should stay away from Bush. The last thing we need is another war with Iraq. As I said, I have nothing agasint ppl living in countries (most of em) BUT I dislike SOME of the Goverments and their policies. We're all human, its a pity we cant all get along peacefully.

[ 08-20-2002, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Calaethis Dragonsbane ]

Kaltia · 08-20-2002, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calaethis Dragonsbane:
Some of you were saying that imigrents cant become "British"... and being British is more then writing on a piece of paper... I suggest you stop there. You are coming VERY close to insulting me. For the record my Mother is 100% "pure" English, if there can be such a thing, (vikings, romans mingled with English etc...) and my Father is well, not British. Malaysian. So syaing what you were saying CAN VERY EASILY be taken the WRONG way. I'll give you the benift of the doubt THIS time, but NEXT time, please be MORE tactful.

on a side note, I think one of the reasons MOST ppl "dislike" amercia is the stereotypical attitute they see so much i.e. "We are the Best" etc, and "God bless America" ~ note not the REST of the world JUST America. Now *I* dont have any problems against (most) of the American ppl; in fact, I'd be honoured to call a couple friends. But the Goverment? not so sure. lol; for the record, I dislike OUR own Goverement... I personally think that Blair should stay away from Bush. The last thing we need is another war with Irak. As I said, I have nothing agasint ppl living in countries (most of em) BUT I dislike SOME of the Goverments and their policies. We're all human, its a pity we cant all get along peacefully.

...you spelt Iraq wrong [img]tongue.gif[/img]

08-20-2002, 04:02 AM	#81
WOLFGIR Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Sweden Age: 50 Posts: 3,450	Well I think this link will shed some small light on the Mongolia/Chineese subjcet. http://www.leader-values.com/leader%20values/Lead21.htm This is the phrase you are looking for perhaps Moni?? "Khubilai Khan, later the first Yuan Emperor of China." Genghis got caught up in the war with the Muslims. __________________ Don´t eat the yellow snow

08-20-2002, 06:20 AM	#86
Kaltia Jack Burton Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Canterbury, England Age: 36 Posts: 5,817	Okay, I'm one of those donut dubbed "still in school" before I begin Secondly, we've all done bad thngs, as a race. it's learning to live past old enemities that I hope for. As for education: A major part of my GCSE education for history is the US. From WW2 to Nixon, inc the cold war, I have to learn it all. And I won't lie, it's pretty damn fun [img]smile.gif[/img] But by talking to an American friend on MSN, I have learnt he's never learnt ANYTHING in school about european history. All through secondary school, I've learnt American, French, Russian and Japanese history. My school teaches languages: I have to take French, german and Spanish as languages. Yet I've learnt most of my american friends only take french, and even then, they don't do it for very long. And before people preen and go on; we've all done bad things. People are shocked by the Holocaust, ignoring the fact that the russian Tsars executed hundreds of times that number of Jews. Australian colonists shot and nearly commited genocide with the aboriginals. British people have had a long history of killing people less than agreeable, mostly non-christians. Germany had the Nazis, 'nuff said there. Chinese people have traditionally hated europeans back for ages, since Britian's monopoly on china-grown opium. And the Americans have had the negros. (ku Klux Klan springs to mind) My point being, all of us have made mistakes. I say there is nothing wrong with any of us: the actions of the governments can determine the way the people of a country can be perceived by the rest of us. Bush is a monkey. I hate him for pulling out the Kouto (spelling...as well....) treaty because "There was no heavy ban on CO2 emissions on the third world countries". (and his million dollar/pound/rupee/franc/mark/euro whatever quote..."Most of the country's imports come from outside the country"). he's as thick as they come and I don't like his plan to flatten much of the US to get fossil fuels. I have read a nuetral report, and though he gives tax reductions and money to research renewable energy sources, the man is an IDIOT. I see nothing wrong with americans as a race. Only George "Dubya" Bush. __________________ The wolf is as cunning as he is ferocious; once he's had a taste of flesh then nothing else will do.

08-20-2002, 06:42 AM	#87
K T Ong Symbol of Cyric Join Date: January 27, 2002 Location: Plateau of Singapore Age: 61 Posts: 1,230	I would have thought Kublai Khan was the grandson of Genghis Khan, not his son? And Moni, wherever you got that thing about the Ong Khan from, I can tell you that my name (Ong) is just a Hokkien pronunciation of the Chinese name 'Wang'; it probably doesn't have any connection with the Mongols. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Well, given my somewhat larger eyes , it is possible I might have some Mongolian (or Eurasian?) genes in me -- just as most modern Brits are probably a good mix of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Jute, Saxon, Danish, Norman etc... And after all is said and done... Yes, let's let the past die and be friends, and make sure people like that Bushwacker* don't ruin everything again.* Okay, please, pretty pleeeeaaaase?... __________________ <br />Look! Everyone\'s admiring me! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Big Grin]\" src=\"biggrin.gif\" />

08-20-2002, 07:29 AM	#89
Calaethis Dragonsbane Legion Symbol Join Date: May 29, 2002 Location: Somewhere in between Age: 39 Posts: 7,029	Some of you were saying that imigrents cant become "British"... and being British is more then writing on a piece of paper... I suggest you stop there. You are coming VERY close to insulting me. For the record my Mother is 100% "pure" English, if there can be such a thing, (vikings, romans mingled with English etc...) and my Father is well, not British. Malaysian. So syaing what you were saying CAN VERY EASILY be taken the WRONG way. I'll give you the benift of the doubt THIS time, but NEXT time, please be MORE tactful. on a side note, I think one of the reasons MOST ppl "dislike" amercia is the stereotypical attitute they see so much i.e. "We are the Best" etc, and "God bless America" ~ note not the REST of the world JUST America. Now I dont have any problems against (most) of the American ppl; in fact, I'd be honoured to call a couple friends. But the Goverment? not so sure. lol; for the record, I dislike OUR own Goverement... I personally think that Blair should stay away from Bush. The last thing we need is another war with Iraq. As I said, I have nothing agasint ppl living in countries (most of em) BUT I dislike SOME of the Goverments and their policies. We're all human, its a pity we cant all get along peacefully. [ 08-20-2002, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Calaethis Dragonsbane ] __________________ Skydracgrrl: Cruelty, thy name is Cal! --- There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, none so deaf as those who refuse to hear, and none so smelly as those who refuse to bathe.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)