questions about "weapon finesse"

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: quote: Drizz't is also a book character rather than a real pc, too. Or if he is a PC (the books based on a played adventure, perhaps), they had a really liberal DM.

No doubt , Craig!! Drizzt has at least 4 illegal by PnP rules abilities. Most of the Drizzt books were written before 3rd Ed. and by 2nd Ed. rules these things just dont fly.....

#1 dual classing !!! Since when could an Elf dual from a straight fighter to a ranger?? According to 2nd Ed. rules Elves cant dual class at all !!!

#2 Drizzt can Backstab!! Since when could fighters backstab??

#3 According to the hall of heros book Drizzt can also cause instant death on a roll of 20. They justify it by saying that its because of his extreme specialization with scimitars. A. to my knowedge you could only specialize with a weapon ONCE!! B. Also to my knowedge the only way to kill something according to the rules is to deplete all its Hit Points. I have yet to see a scimitar do enough damage to cause instant death to anything with more than 4 hit dice.

#4 according to the books Drizzt doesnt lose any of his drow powers. According to the rules , after 6 months away from the underdark all drow special abilities are gone FOREVER !!

Also IMHO Drizzt isnt all that great. I killed him in BG1 and 2[/QUOTE]1: the dual classing is a bit of a stretch, and it ticked me off how they made drizzt out to be such a badass in the dark elf trilogy, then made him a pansy when he fought Montolio.

2: He's a ranger, Stalkers in BG2 get a backstab, and how do you know he actually has a damage multiplier, and not just a surprise attack that happened to be from behind, or a called shot to an enemies vital area's that did the extra damage(it's been allowed since the gladiators handbook).

3: true even by the fighter's handbook a ranger can only specialize once, however the combat and tactics book allows for weapon mastery, by adding additional slots to the weapon after you have specialized in it., altho this would be unavailable to him as a ranger. you have to remember he was a lvl 20 fighter before and had the chance to gain that specialisation. Also as a drow he automatically get's ambidexterity and two weapon fighting, look it up in the monster manual, 1st or second edition, Drow can dual wield with no penalties.
As far as instant death, in the combat section of the players handbook (2 ed) it is possible if the attack does 50hp's of damage, the person must make a system shock roll or die from massive trauma.
also as per the gladiators handbook you can make a called shot for someone's neck, and if you do 50% of their hp's (at a -8 to hit) you can behead them provided you have a slashing weapon.

4:As a drow noble he has access to his powers more often than the typical drow (see the drow of the underdark book) in addition he also has his family brooch which allows additional uses of his innate powers. he spends a great deal of his time in mithril hall underground, and he has lost most of his powers, (IIRC he only still has faerie fire, and darkness 15' radius that he can still use) and he rarely uses them in the books anymore, why? possibly because he CAN'T use them anymore. he also was never played (R.A. Salvatore has only used one character he has written about as a character for PnP play, I forget which one, but I think it was a char in his demonwars saga)

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by theifprowess: And in real life any long blade can be vorpal style. and kill with one hit. how is it dragons and other high lvl bosses are immune to vorpal attacks?

Actually the story behind the Vorpal sword goes back to "Alice in Wonderland", or rather "Through the Looking Glass", the tale of the Jabberwock, only a "vorpal" sword could slay the Jabberwock, it was a nonsense word created by CS Lewis that Gary Gygax adapted into a sword with an excellent chance of instantly beheading things. As for why a dragon would be immune, say you're a DM, running a bunch of pc's through a dungoen, and at the end you know they're going to have to fight a dragon, there's no way in hell I'd let a lucky 20 kill MY dragon, it would be shamefull to let such a magnificent monster go down without a fight, and the same goes for bosses, if they fell like wheat to a vorpal blade why bother even making them bosses. or they might just have an iron collar preventing their heads from being removed

[ 07-11-2002, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

Originally posted by oldbittercraig: scimitars weigh 4 pounds to a rapiers 3... not that much of a difference... it's a judgement call. I got a pretty "by the books" dm to grant me finesse with the scimitars in a D3 adventure. Drizz't is also a book character rather than a real pc, too. Or if he is a PC (the books based on a played adventure, perhaps), they had a really liberal DM.

The only Scimitar I ever encountered in real life weighed quite a bit more than 4 pounds....felt more like 10...even a rapier seems heavy after waving it around for a few minutes. Guess what I am trying to get at is, that I for one was not surprised that Scimitars were not included in the "light" waepon catagory.
I love to go to Renfairs and actually hold and try to use stuff we see in the games [img]smile.gif[/img] Marylands faire starts the end of August [img]smile.gif[/img] wooHoooo!!!

On a side note but along the same vein, my co-worker just got done "knitting" himself a chainmail shirt, actually it is almost long enough to be a hauberk. He used 12gauge galvanized steel wire to form the links...the bloody thing weighs 75 pounds!!!! So anyone who doesnt think Chain shirts ought to be at LEAST medium weight armor...you might try wearing one once [img]smile.gif[/img] (a similar shirt of acid etched aluminum weighs in at around 25 pounds but doesnt offer much protection)

[ 07-11-2002, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Morgeruat: quote: Originally posted by theifprowess: And in real life any long blade can be vorpal style. and kill with one hit. how is it dragons and other high lvl bosses are immune to vorpal attacks?

Actually the story behind the Vorpal sword goes back to "Alice in Wonderland", or rather "Through the Looking Glass", the tale of the Jabberwock, only a "vorpal" sword could slay the Jabberwock, it was a nonsense word created by CS Lewis that Gary Gygax adapted into a sword with an excellent chance of instantly beheading things. As for why a dragon would be immune, say you're a DM, running a bunch of pc's through a dungoen, and at the end you know they're going to have to fight a dragon, there's no way in hell I'd let a lucky 20 kill MY dragon, it would be shamefull to let such a magnificent monster go down without a fight, and the same goes for bosses, if they fell like wheat to a vorpal blade why bother even making them bosses. or they might just have an iron collar preventing their heads from being removes [/QUOTE] Just another reason why some beings might be immune to the "vorpal" blades going snicker snack (CS Lewis was quite a writer [img]smile.gif[/img] ) if your blade is 3 foot long, and its neck is 6foot in diameter...you cannot behead the critter with a single stroke.

Thiefprowess.....there has never been an Actual real life vorpal blade....or even a Sword of Sharpness which would cleave stone and have increased ability to sever limbs....or a Sword of frost, or a sword that would suck your soul out of you [img]smile.gif[/img]

[DraconisRex]

Originally posted by MagiK: Thiefprowess.....there has never been an Actual real life vorpal blade....or even a Sword of Sharpness which would cleave stone and have increased ability to sever limbs....or a Sword of frost, or a sword that would suck your soul out of you [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QB]

Obviously you never met my ex-wife or her tongue...

[Morgeruat]

ROFLFAO, touche`

[oldbittercraig]

uh, Lewis Carroll wrote Alice and Through the Looking Glass.

C.S. Lewis wrote the Narnia books...

[DeSoya]

Originally posted by oldbittercraig: uh, Lewis Carroll wrote Alice and Through the Looking Glass. C.S. Lewis wrote the Narnia books...

Thanks oldbittercraig. I was going to point that out....

On the Drizzt Issue. I'm pretty sure that R.A. Salvatore was playing Drizzt under the 1st edition AD&D rules which allowed for double specialization in weapons. His DM broke all the rules. It's the same for Ed Greenwood and Elminister. They weren't even playing D&D anymore. At least not in so far as you or I would recognize it. The problems came when Drizzt became so popular. They decided to port him over into the official supplements to make more money. Kinda lame but oh well.

DeSoya