George Bush in Berlin

[Yorick]

Originally posted by skywalker: Well I guess you love the average American a lot more than I do. Mark I'm sorry, I'll stop sparring with you Yorick. This is totally off topic and unfair to the spirit of the thread. I do understand your point of view and respect it, though I may not agree.

No. There are average Americans that I love. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Or perhaps you're right. I do love this country.

Thanks for the edit. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[quote]Originally posted by skywalker:

Well, I'll be damned if I will ever take any sort of responsibility for stuff that was done before I was born. I can't change the past, but I can make the future better. mark

Sooooo basicly you are telling the african-americans who want reparations for slavery to go pack sand then..since our generations didnt hold slaves?...just want to be clear on your stance here [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by skywalker: Well, I'll be damned if I will ever take any sort of responsibility for stuff that was done before I was born. I can't change the past, but I can make the future better. mark

But how can we make the future better, unless we acknowledge the mistakes - our mistakes - of the past, and seek to redress, compensate, learn from and avoid those evils? Knowledge and ownership are empowering.

Regarding slavery, I see the wounded side as showing incredible grace in the situation. Every day.

I was living in the south Bronx with some African-Americans for a while. I was the only Anglo for miles. I learnt a lot. I saw a white off duty cop start bullying my black friend. I've witnessed shocking, shocking white to black prejudice, and listened to another black friend wear his victimhood like a badge of restriction.

Some of these guys are still feeling the repercussions of the horrors of the white past.

By collectively owning the situation we can change things. Ownership, taking rather than avoiding blame, is empowering.

Blame implies power.

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by LennonCook: I agree with this statement. From what the rest of the world (or atleast Australia) saw, there was imediate retaliation from the US to an "enemy" which hasn't been proven to do anything. The task forces they sent to "investigate" were armed with enough explosives to destroy Afghanistan entirely. When the taliban refused to hand over bin Laden unless proof was given of his guilt, they suddenly became the enemy- for wanting evidance. As for Bush in Berlin, sent Howard over there too, set em out on a boat, and have blow up due to a motor defect a few ks into international waters I know id cheer... especially about little Johny being blown up

Lennon, I'm Australian. I didn't see it like that. None of the 20 Aussies I know in NYC saw it like that either. None of my family or friends back home saw it like that. Speak for yourself please.

As far as your Johhny statement goes, that's actually treasonous sentiment. Wish him out of office if you want, but to wish the elected leader of our country dead?

Not very smart.[/QB][/QUOTE]Evidantly you didnt see the s... I wasnt serious about wanting little Johny dead... atleast, I wouldn't want him to die in office... there'd be a bi election, but his party would still be in power. Not what I want. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Ok, for the record- when I said thats how atleast Australia saw it, that statement is based on what Aussies I talk to on MSN, and those whom I know in real life, say. I am using the only information available to me, and can only assume its accuracy. Remember, im 15- when I say I want someone dead, Im either joking or very very crazy. Like most people my age, atleast in the city I live in, I do not like the idea of anything dying, human or otherwise, unless it is to eat. And since I am against canabalism in any species of animal (including humans), I do not like the idea of other humans dying.
If I ever say something like my little Jonny thing above, and dont use smilies, assume that ive been going to bed way to late, and getting up way too early. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Also, when I said "or atleast Australia", I was mainly refering to the Aussie media. People such as yourself in New York will naturally have different views on this situation, I was merely stating mine. Please dont shoot me

[skywalker]

I suppose the main reason I have a hard time carrying the Slavery and Indian crosses, is that both sides of my family came from the Azores Islands only 2 generations back. I guess since I was born here, America's past, is mine as well. I just feel that I didn't do it so I'm not responsible.

Saying that I've had several black friends in the past (no reference to your post Yorick) seems to make me sound like I'm trying to prove something (like I'm not a bigot), but I really don't care about a person's race, we are all homan beings. I thank my parents for this outlook.

Mark

[ 05-24-2002, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: skywalker ]

[Lord of Alcohol]

Lennon when I first saw your posting I thought you were a twit. Then you changed your same and acted somewhat mature and I respected you. A bit of the mini-mod syndrome but I still respected you. Well its all gone now. Dont bother responding

[skywalker]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by skywalker: Well, I'll be damned if I will ever take any sort of responsibility for stuff that was done before I was born. I can't change the past, but I can make the future better. mark Sooooo basicly you are telling the african-americans who want reparations for slavery to go pack sand then..since our generations didnt hold slaves?...just want to be clear on your stance here [img]smile.gif[/img]

How can a person answer this question yes and not be considered a bigot?

Mark

[Edit] That question was dirty pool, Magik! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 05-24-2002, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: skywalker ]

[skywalker]

Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: Lennon when I first saw your posting I thought you were a twit. Then you changed your same and acted somewhat mature and I respected you. A bit of the mini-mod syndrome but I still respected you. Well its all gone now. Dont bother responding

Whoa! That's a little bit too personal..I think.

Mark

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by skywalker: you can't blame the current generation for Sins Of The Father

Actually yes you can. We as a race can and do perpetually visit the sins of the father on the son. Has ever been thus.[/QUOTE]Here we can use your same logic to disagree with you. We can't blame people now for something which happened, say, two hundred years ago. But by your logic, we can blame the father for what the son did; as previous sins may be revisited.
Whatever happens though, we can't blame a previous sin on a person who wasn't born when it happened.

[johnny]

i can't believe that so many europeans oppose the US. A lot of them actually think they are the enemy, that just doesn't make any sense to me. Every word bush said so far about countries like irak, iran, libya, north korea, syria,palestine ( i can think of a couple more ) is absolutely true. Just sit back and do nothing is stupid, while they continue to support and finance terrorists. I've heard on the news that new attacks are expected to take place very soon in the US and you can't believe how much that pisses me off, just hearing those things. What is it that those guys want anyway ? Do they want us all to turn muslim ? When are they satisfied ? In my opinion there's only one way to deal with this faceless enemy, and that is hit back, hit back so hard they shit themselves from fear, just like they did to us on september 11. There is an old saying that says an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and i believe in that. If bush wants to attack irak, please by all means, do so, only this time finish the job. It's no use defeating the iraki army and let saddam sit on his throne. This time it's time for him to be brought to justice, or even better, put a bullet in his head. No more mr niceguy, finish this, whatever it takes.