Spoilerish Musings on Finishing ToB for the first time

[Mahokenshi]

Even though I bought the BG series a year ago, I had never really played through to the end until yestderday. Real life intervened some (finishing grad school) and also I just kept seeming to lose interest in either my party or the story by the sewers of Saradush.

But, fueled by free time during the holidays, I did it.

Aaaand ... mmm ... I feel the urge to go on the internet and type random musings. I'm sure there have been billions of such threads, but none seem recent; and so for the benefit of other "first timers," here's a ramble.


SPOILERS STOP READING AND GO PLAY!


Arrival in Saradush. Mellisan is the most obvious villian of the entire trilogy. More obvious than the "Armoured Figure." More obvious than Irencius (my very first playthrough I thought Irenicus was just a jailor working for someone else; go figure.) I remember that, during that peasants vs guards conversation, I was already making plans to both hold off the guards and force-attack her.

Saradush is little. More on this later. But at least it had several interesting subquests. More on THIS later too.

Oh, and to retroactively add a commment; Illesara got some SERIOIUS ret-conning done to her character (ret-con being retroactive continuity). She got to be one of the Five. Yeah. Oh well, I guess every chain needs a weak link. It wasn't until Chapter 9 that I was finally convinced that she wasn't just some Random Assassin Chick (heavan knows there are plenty of those at least in BG1... .)

Bhallspawnevilbhallspawnevilbhallspawnevilbhallspa wnevil ... eeh. You know, I had taken this character through BG1. And for everyone whose played through BG1 and got the sixth "good" dream knows, bhallspawn (ugh can we get a slightly more PC name for my PC ) does not equal evil. Yeah, yeah, "born into sin, born into darkness" is a theme that 's pre-occupied our culture for a long time, but a BIT more of a balanced treatment would have been welcome. I can understand why Keldorn threatened to kill me, but when Aerie of all people threatened to thwack me a new one if I didn't keep towing the line, well, I knew that a deceaced equine was being bludgeoned as well. By the time I met Bhalthazar, I wished that there was some sort of possible "trial scene," like in the beginning of Chrono Trigger. You could "summon" in, say, up to five people from SoA. Say, the mayor of trademeet, the mayor of Imnisvale, inspector Brega, Prelate Wellesan, and whatshername - that girl and her brother you can smuggle off of Brynlaw. If your character had helped each of these people (doing the fallen paladin quest and / or asking for the order's help in ch 6 for Wellesan) and kept them alive, well, goodies to you. Maybe you could get one of your old "good" powers back for each person you saved. The trial could "end" with Balthazar flying off the hook and attacking you (as per usual). But it would be nice for good aligned players to do SOMETHING about all that negativity. If you're evil, well, you'll love it. If you're neurtral, you might find the extremes annoying as well.

Giant Smurfette. Yes, yes, the whole "am I my brother's keeper and all" is part of our culture too, but I owe the ToB NPCs nothing. Just because PC got saved and NPC didn't doesn't mean that the burdon of guilt over that, if there reall was such a thing, would fall to me. I was a bit put out when I found out my dialogue choice for that scene counted as "evil." That's an opinion, not a universal truth. To be fiar, most of the other Giant Smurfette trails were more palatable in their choices.

PS Elmonster in his famous guide was right; that wasn't Tomoko. In BG1 she was some kind of fighter/cleric, and wouldn't have been able to dual wield katanas. Why would my being evil have altered the class choices of someone who was born and trained in Kara Tur? A mega-high level fighter cleric ought to have been a decent enough opponent; and Ao knows that ToB doesn't exactly limit its katana weilders to Kara Turians for storyine purposes or anything... .

The king and queen of Tehtyr want PC dead. Because PC destroyed Saradush. Umm ... was Yaga Shura invisible to everyone except my party? He had mostly destroyed the place when I got there, and when I got back I saved Tethyr a bloody and futile campagin against said Yaga. I wish there was a little follow up to that. Well, okay I wish there was a LOT of follow up to that, it's an interesting plot hook.

That dessert city. Now THAT was an interesting setting! A large secluded monastary tucked away in the wastelands, bullying the locals and training an army for who-knows-what end. I wanted to explore that setting more than the game allowed.

Fighting Sendai was funny. Here, the fast pacing, action oriented tone of the game was done well. All the cutscenes were a blast, and the final battle was an interesting and unusual challange. I wish that more fights were like that, rather than of the "lower its thaco to -10 and add on 200 hit points" variety.

Fighting Abazigal was a decent last hurrah for dragon slaying in the series. But ... Draconis was the size of a skyscraper, so he would have been a Young Adult ... and that would make Abazigal a Mature Adult at the youngest, meaning the PC's "sibling" here would have been at LEAST 400 years old or so... . How long was Bhall forced to be a mortal for? Was I supposed to not notice that? I think so. A child of bhall/dragon must have been too cool in the concept stage to pass up.

Balthazar has the TINIEST awsomely bing fortress I have ever seen. I wish there was more to that confrentation; and I don't just mean giving him more cheesy powers (although he was easier than Ilesara.) I was kind of looking forward to seeing how a monk-themed fortress would be defended. Balthazar has a lot to learn from the likes of Firkraag when it comes to lair design... .

The final battle was, in Gromnir's words, good fun. But why is it that so many villains grow giant when they suck in spiritual power? Even Cyric found that distasteful.

I could be a good god, but if I do, I would have to spend an eternity with Giant Judgemental Smurfette. Wait, I thought I WASN'T going back to hell if I was good.

Story wise; I think more was bitten off than the developers could chew. I think focusing on one or two villians rather than seven in a game so small (having done watcher's keep in SoA, I plowed through ToB in a lazy day) would have led to more depth and a more worthwhile story. Eeh. An old complaint; I had read it before, but, well, I want to make it too; however belated it is.


And now on to PowerGamer's Paradise Awards.

Most Awesome dialogue award: Spectator
Least Awesome dialogue award: Cespenar; when I had him upgrade all the Watcher's keep stuff in one go. "OOOOH!" can only be endured so often by the human mind.

Most Awesome weapon in my party mix (ToB): The Staff of the Ram. Wow is it fun to thwack an enemy across the screen, run after them, and give them another good thwack.

Least Awesome weapon in my party mix (ToB): Hindo's Doom. What, even when upgraded only +4? When everything and its uncle gets +5 or +6? Okay, there may have been a lot of criticism over SoA's Celestial Cheese stick, but wouldn't it have been better to alter the CF and put a good katana into ToB rather than do this?

Most Awesome weapon in my party mix (SoA): The staff of the magi. AC bonus, ST bonus, invisible on demand, dispel magic on demand, spell trap; it's a frontline fighter's best friend.

Most Abusable HLA: Use any item. See above about staff of the magi. My Kensai/thief had by far the best AC in the party, by mixing and matching items intended for bards, monks, rangers, mages, etc.

Least Abusable HLA: Hmm. Probably all the ones I didn't take like making potions and making scrolls (why do THIEVES do that, when in PnP it's the specialty of mages; who can make potions and scrolls from level 8 or 9 in 2nd edition if I recall.)

Funnest enemy: Sendai

Least fun enemy: Balthazar

Most forgettable vital character central to the plot: Illesara. Honorable metion to the king and queen of tethyr and Gromnir.

Least forgettable non-vital character: Spectator.

WHY did he get included when so many cool SoA NPC's didn't: Semon Hevarian.

Best Hamster: Boo.

Best makeup: Not Illesara. Bhodi did "goth chick" a lot better.

Well, that's all for now. Read at your peril.

[Kyrvias]

I agree with... everything you said, oddly enough. Though, you lost me at "Spectator". Care to explain?

[teardropmina]

Originally posted by Kyrvias: ...Though, you lost me at "Spectator". Care to explain?

I think Mahokenshi meant the spectator beholder in Sendai's enclave. He's kinda, rather popular character among certain BG fans, for his two funny appearances (the other is in SOA Sahuagin city)

btw, to Mahokenshi,

did you have ascension installed or just the vanllia TOB? with ascension, all those Bhallspwan battles and the final showdown will be VERY different. Also, the oversight mod for tougher Sendai...may be much more fun, if one can survive it~~

[Dundee Slaytern]

Spectator Beholder.

And Saemon Havarian does make a reappearance in ToB.

[IronDragon]

Originally posted by Mahokenshi: Arrival in Saradush. Mellisan is the most obvious villian of the entire trilogy. More obvious than the "Armoured Figure." More obvious than Irencius (my very first playthrough I thought Irenicus was just a jailor working for someone else; go figure.) I remember that, during that peasants vs guards conversation, I was already making plans to both hold off the guards and force-attack her.

I remember my first meeting with Mellisan…she broadcasts evil. Probably because the game calls so much attention to her..and the fact she has a portrait. it would have been better if she quietly appeared in the city asking for help with some side quest.

Saradush is little. More on this later. But at least it had several interesting subquests. More on THIS later too.

Little .. it was disappointingly small.

Oh, and to retroactively add a commment; Illesara got some SERIOIUS ret-conning done to her character (ret-con being retroactive continuity). She got to be one of the Five. Yeah. Oh well, I guess every chain needs a weak link. It wasn't until Chapter 9 that I was finally convinced that she wasn't just some Random Assassin Chick (heavan knows there are plenty of those at least in BG1... .)

And several of those BG1 assassins were tougher than Illesara was. What a waste of a character.

Giant Smurfette. Yes, yes, the whole "am I my brother's keeper and all" is part of our culture too, but I owe the ToB NPCs nothing. Just because PC got saved and NPC didn't doesn't mean that the burdon of guilt over that, if there reall was such a thing, would fall to me. I was a bit put out when I found out my dialogue choice for that scene counted as "evil." That's an opinion, not a universal truth. To be fiar, most of the other Giant Smurfette trails were more palatable in their choices.

This really rubbed me the wrong way to. Once I figured out that the answers you give the Solar don’t really affect anything I started answering truthfully instead of what the game dictates as the “good” answer. Should I feel sorry for Sarevek because I got Gorion and he didn’t? Heck no I should not. the game is implying that being good or evil isn’t about one’s actions or the choices one makes…rather it is about who your parents are. Pathetic.

Fighting Sendai was funny. Here, the fast pacing, action oriented tone of the game was done well. All the cutscenes were a blast, and the final battle was an interesting and unusual challange. I wish that more fights were like that, rather than of the "lower its thaco to -10 and add on 200 hit points" variety.

this fight was one of the few challenging ones in ToB

Fighting Abazigal was a decent last hurrah for dragon slaying in the series. But ... Draconis was the size of a skyscraper, so he would have been a Young Adult ... and that would make Abazigal a Mature Adult at the youngest, meaning the PC's "sibling" here would have been at LEAST 400 years old or so... . How long was Bhall forced to be a mortal for? Was I supposed to not notice that? I think so. A child of bhall/dragon must have been too cool in the concept stage to pass up.

The PC or any of the other Bhaaspawn were not specifically conceived during the Time of Troubles. Remember Bhaal had foreknowledge of his death and took action in the form of having dozens of moral children. there is nothing to indicate just when he found out …but considering that the prophecies of Alanso are all over the place it shouldn’t have been tough for him. Considering how long it takes things like dragons and elfs and giants and drow to mature Bhaal had obviously been out getting females pregnant for some time. What is more interesting is just why he went out of the human gene pool. Why would he father a half dragon in the first place?

Story wise; I think more was bitten off than the developers could chew. I think focusing on one or two villians rather than seven in a game so small (having done watcher's keep in SoA, I plowed through ToB in a lazy day) would have led to more depth and a more worthwhile story. Eeh. An old complaint; I had read it before, but, well, I want to make it too; however belated it is.

I think they stared with the concept of a full game like Baldur’s gate and ToB but then cut it back to just be a mod.

And now on to PowerGamer's Paradise Awards. Most Awesome dialogue award: Spectator Least Awesome dialogue award: Cespenar; when I had him upgrade all the Watcher's keep stuff in one go. "OOOOH!" can only be endured so often by the human mind.

Hey…I like Cespanar

Most Awesome weapon in my party mix (ToB): The Staff of the Ram. Wow is it fun to thwack an enemy across the screen, run after them, and give them another good thwack.

I hate running across the screen…so I never use the silly thing. I prefer the Flail of Ages +5...now that is a weapon

Least Awesome weapon in my party mix (ToB): Hindo's Doom. What, even when upgraded only +4? When everything and its uncle gets +5 or +6? Okay, there may have been a lot of criticism over SoA's Celestial Cheese stick, but wouldn't it have been better to alter the CF and put a good katana into ToB rather than do this?

There is a mod that does upgrade CF…but I think it just makes the thing overpowered …and it turns it blue too.

Funnest enemy: Sendai Least fun enemy: Balthazar

Balthazar was just anti-climactic

[Lord]

If you found the battles too tough, try using Tactics. Even Illasera becomes difficult to kill.

I agree, Balthazaar was a big disappointment. There is a mod (either Ascension or Redemption does this) that allows you to reconcile with Balthazaar if you are Lawful Good, and you can have him join your party in the final battle. The cheese is that you can keep all 6 of your party members as well, so it's like having 7 members. It's still a bit of a disappointment though.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Lord: If you found the battles too tough, try using Tactics. Even Illasera becomes difficult to kill.

Easier actually... Shield of Reflection. A lot of the mods in Tactics have serious flaws in their battle scripting.

The most serious being,

Thou shalt always aim the PC, and ONLY the PC, to the detriment of thy intelligence. Party members, rejoice.

[Ilyich]

On the timeframe paradox of Abazigal being a 400 year old Bhaalspawn, I think that Bhaal didn't bother with the traditional method of impregnating the mothers of his children. I believe that he went around the world, and simply applied his essence to the would-be Bhaalspawn. He was a god, so he can do pretty much whatever he wants, including giving part of his essence simply by pointing at the target.

[ElfBane]

My big gripe is that you slog all the way to the end,, and you have to defeat her,,,what?,, 3 or 4 times? A real pain in the booty. Next time thru I'll just use the "insta-kill" cheat.

[Kyrvias]

What? Control-Why?