The Grinch

Animal · 12-26-2002, 07:45 PM

Well, Christmas was good and my daughter got spoiled, but that's nothing new. Hope everyone enjoyed their Christmas.
Anyway, I'm not a huge Christmas person. I celebrate it only because of my daughter and I only except a gift from her, but I do get gifts for other people. I do not wish to start a giant debate her, but I don't think that I should celebrate something that I don't believe in.
Yes, I have read the bible and think it's a good story, but nothing more. Incidently, my daughter goes to church every Sunday, and I have no problem with that. I feel that everyone should be allowed to make certain decisions on their own and I in no way hold her back or attempt to influence her beliefs based upon my own.
My point being, my friends and family get very upset with me because I will not accept any gifts from them, even though some share my same beliefs. They claim I have no Christmas spirit and that I am just plain wrong to not celebrate it whether I am a beleiver or not.
Am I wrong? I just can't bring myself to celebrate something that I don't believe in just to receive material possesions. This year my daughter gave me my standard yearly tie, a bath robe and a few ornaments that she made in school. The ornaments were the greatest part, because I know it came from her heart.
I suppose I'm looking for a few objective opinions from people who don't really know me that well (that's your cue, everyone!) Am I wrong in not wanting to be hypocritcal?

Lord of Alcohol · 12-26-2002, 07:58 PM

Animal I belive as you do religion-wise but I have to admit I like the holiday. I see nothing wrong with your accepting gifts, its a nice tradition anyway [img]smile.gif[/img] Hey its fun! Also I didnt get that check from you yet, I'll keep waiting by the mailbox [img]tongue.gif[/img] Feeling better btw?

Animal · 12-26-2002, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol:
Animal I belive as you do religion-wise but I have to admit I like the holiday. I see nothing wrong with your accepting gifts, its a nice tradition anyway [img]smile.gif[/img] Hey its fun! Also I didnt get that check from you yet, I'll keep waiting by the mailbox [img]tongue.gif[/img] Feeling better btw?

Cheques in the mail.

Still bashed up, and will be for a while, but feeling 100% better. Thanks for asking.

Tobbin · 12-26-2002, 08:47 PM

Hmmmm. A believer, or not a believer? I think it mainly comes down to something extremely simple. I believe that Christmas, as a reminder of Christ, is really a reminder of goodwill towards man (or woman). It is a time to express to someone that you care for/about them. Whether this means buying gifts or not, is up to the individual and the intended recipient/provider of the gift. Remember that although you are making this somewhat religious in nature, you are really telling other people that you do not want them to express their goodwill to you (at least in gifts). Do you offer other avenues for them to express their feelings? I ask that, because I have noted that I have been doing a great deal of that myself. A friend of mine told me that I was selfish to give gifts, but not to receive them. I thought about it a great deal, and realized it was rather one sided. I would also like to add that I do believe in God and Jesus Christ, and that I always have. To me, giving gifts at Christmas became too commercial. I never thought about the reason behind the commercialization. Well, anyways, just something to ponder.

Ladyzekke · 12-26-2002, 08:47 PM

Animal, everyone has different beliefs and perspectives about Christmas, nothing wrong if you don't get into it. Your family is probably just bummed out to not be able to enjoy the "fun" part of Christmas with you is all

For me, I'm a Christian and I hate Santa LOL. Christmas is supposed to be focused on the birth of Christ. I have no problem with exchanging gifts to get family together in a happy festive occasion once a year, it always is a good thing, people keep in touch by Christmas cards and visits, dinners, exchanging gifts, etc. But to me Santa takes the focus away from Christ, which is supposed to be what the holiday is all about. Santa is a gimmick for people to make money, and it also promotes greed.

Again, I enjoy Christmas and all the light decorations, the tree, the gift exchanges, the whole 9 yards, but you'll never see me sending out any Christmas cards with Santa on them (except for maybe it is a humorous on in bad taste LOL), no Santa ornaments, or lighted plastic yard Santas, or wrapping paper with Santa, nothing. Oh, and when I was 12 my parents made me take our plastic stuffed Santa sitting on a chair on our front porch and dump it in the woods in our back yard day after Christmas (they had trash can issues I guess

) Anyway, I had NO gloves and it sleeted overnight so the thing had a coating of ice all over it and was stuck to the chair to boot. I finally managed to dislodge it and hauled it to the woods, my hands at that point were totally red and freezing and I was PISSED! So after I threw Santa down on the ground, I kicked him. A few times (possibly 50), some may have been considered "stomps" more than kicks really.... Oh, and my dad filmed the entire thing from a window in the house, laughing away watching me in my glory LOL. Every now and again at Christmas when we visit my parents he likes to pop that tape in so all can laugh and point at me, see how Santa is evil? Do you seee!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Lord of Alcohol · 12-26-2002, 10:04 PM

At least your not bitter about Santa or anything Wendy [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] LOL You kick Santa all you want LOL

antryg · 12-26-2002, 10:35 PM

Animal, I really appreciate the fact that you see and understand Christmas for the day it is supposed to be. It is my feeling that most people have already removed the religious aspects of the day and celebrate it only as a fill in the blank holiday. By that I mean that people have taken it to be a "free" day and ascribe whatever content to it that they enjoy.

It appears that your sense of honesty and integrity in not wanting to debase what for others is a holy day has led you to be labeled a "grinch". Your post makes it clear that this is not the case. If it was called family and friend day, I have no doubt that you would feel quite comfortable in gift exchange etc. Since that is exactly what the day represents for so many they are confused in your desire not to participate.

I feel for you. I can see that this stand has not come without a price. I would like to offer some advice that might help. When I visit with friends that are Jewish I always cover my head and have even learned a prayer in Hebrew. When eating with Arab or Muslim friends I am careful to only use my right hand. It is not that I share their religious beliefs but that I honor their belief when I am with them. In the same manner, in those things which do not infringe upon your own values, maybe you could partake in the Christmas season with those around you. Whatever position you take in the future I applaud your compassion and personal honesty.

kev · 12-26-2002, 10:54 PM

Animal,

Xmas never really started out as a holy day as such. It was a way of combating the depression caused by lack of sunlight & poor nutrition in the Northern hemispheres winter. All those preserves & carbohydrates gave people a needed lift. From there it evolved by incorperating many religious facets, not just christian, for a fact christ was not born on xmas day it was just convieniant to use a day that was already a celebration.

The giving of gifts probably evolved because it was a happy day & giving gifts makes many people happy. Now in western countries it has become very commercial. Even Santa is commercial, his current image is a product of the coca cola company.

In my family we are cutting down on the commercial side of things by putting a limit on what we spend. This makes you think more carefully on what gift to give & tends to make a gift the personal thing that it should be.

I think that it is rude not to accept a gift that is given freely because the greatest thrill is in the giving & seeing the expression on a persons face. You dont have to believe in xmas to be a part of it.

Garnet FalconDance · 12-27-2002, 08:49 AM

Animal, don't worry about it! Christmas didn't start out as a gift-giving celebration, anyhow. (Ok, guys, don't worry. I'm not going to give the ultimate, obligatory history lesson ) Actually, it originated much earlier than the christ child's hoopla, as did *most* of the celebration basics. Santa Claus is a really recent addition and personally, I can't stand the old dude.

Christmas is one of those observations which can be, and typically is, both secular and sacred. Don't worry if some people don't understand your separation of the two---it's their issue, not yours.

See, I didn't climb on the soapbox

Donut · 12-27-2002, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol:
At least your not bitter about Santa or anything Wendy [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] LOL You kick Santa all you want LOL

Bashing head on table trying to remember if the card I sent her had santa on it!!

12-26-2002, 07:45 PM	#1
Animal Gold Dragon Join Date: March 29, 2002 Location: Canada Age: 51 Posts: 2,534	Well, Christmas was good and my daughter got spoiled, but that's nothing new. Hope everyone enjoyed their Christmas. Anyway, I'm not a huge Christmas person. I celebrate it only because of my daughter and I only except a gift from her, but I do get gifts for other people. I do not wish to start a giant debate her, but I don't think that I should celebrate something that I don't believe in. Yes, I have read the bible and think it's a good story, but nothing more. Incidently, my daughter goes to church every Sunday, and I have no problem with that. I feel that everyone should be allowed to make certain decisions on their own and I in no way hold her back or attempt to influence her beliefs based upon my own. My point being, my friends and family get very upset with me because I will not accept any gifts from them, even though some share my same beliefs. They claim I have no Christmas spirit and that I am just plain wrong to not celebrate it whether I am a beleiver or not. Am I wrong? I just can't bring myself to celebrate something that I don't believe in just to receive material possesions. This year my daughter gave me my standard yearly tie, a bath robe and a few ornaments that she made in school. The ornaments were the greatest part, because I know it came from her heart. I suppose I'm looking for a few objective opinions from people who don't really know me that well (that's your cue, everyone!) Am I wrong in not wanting to be hypocritcal? __________________ It\'s all fun and games until somebody loses an eye...then it becomes a sport.<br /> [img]\"http://members.shaw.ca/mtholdings/bsmeter.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

12-26-2002, 07:58 PM	#2
Lord of Alcohol Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Charlotte,NC Age: 60 Posts: 4,570	Animal I belive as you do religion-wise but I have to admit I like the holiday. I see nothing wrong with your accepting gifts, its a nice tradition anyway [img]smile.gif[/img] Hey its fun! Also I didnt get that check from you yet, I'll keep waiting by the mailbox [img]tongue.gif[/img] Feeling better btw? __________________ No

12-26-2002, 08:47 PM	#4
Tobbin Red Dragon Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Holiday, FL Age: 56 Posts: 1,507	Hmmmm. A believer, or not a believer? I think it mainly comes down to something extremely simple. I believe that Christmas, as a reminder of Christ, is really a reminder of goodwill towards man (or woman). It is a time to express to someone that you care for/about them. Whether this means buying gifts or not, is up to the individual and the intended recipient/provider of the gift. Remember that although you are making this somewhat religious in nature, you are really telling other people that you do not want them to express their goodwill to you (at least in gifts). Do you offer other avenues for them to express their feelings? I ask that, because I have noted that I have been doing a great deal of that myself. A friend of mine told me that I was selfish to give gifts, but not to receive them. I thought about it a great deal, and realized it was rather one sided. I would also like to add that I do believe in God and Jesus Christ, and that I always have. To me, giving gifts at Christmas became too commercial. I never thought about the reason behind the commercialization. Well, anyways, just something to ponder. __________________ <br /><br /><b>Protectorate of the OHF<br />Death Waits 4 U ALL</b>

12-26-2002, 08:47 PM	#5
Ladyzekke Ironworks Atomic Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Virginia, U.S.A. Age: 57 Posts: 9,005	Animal, everyone has different beliefs and perspectives about Christmas, nothing wrong if you don't get into it. Your family is probably just bummed out to not be able to enjoy the "fun" part of Christmas with you is all For me, I'm a Christian and I hate Santa LOL. Christmas is supposed to be focused on the birth of Christ. I have no problem with exchanging gifts to get family together in a happy festive occasion once a year, it always is a good thing, people keep in touch by Christmas cards and visits, dinners, exchanging gifts, etc. But to me Santa takes the focus away from Christ, which is supposed to be what the holiday is all about. Santa is a gimmick for people to make money, and it also promotes greed. Again, I enjoy Christmas and all the light decorations, the tree, the gift exchanges, the whole 9 yards, but you'll never see me sending out any Christmas cards with Santa on them (except for maybe it is a humorous on in bad taste LOL), no Santa ornaments, or lighted plastic yard Santas, or wrapping paper with Santa, nothing. Oh, and when I was 12 my parents made me take our plastic stuffed Santa sitting on a chair on our front porch and dump it in the woods in our back yard day after Christmas (they had trash can issues I guess ) Anyway, I had NO gloves and it sleeted overnight so the thing had a coating of ice all over it and was stuck to the chair to boot. I finally managed to dislodge it and hauled it to the woods, my hands at that point were totally red and freezing and I was PISSED! So after I threw Santa down on the ground, I kicked him. A few times (possibly 50), some may have been considered "stomps" more than kicks really.... Oh, and my dad filmed the entire thing from a window in the house, laughing away watching me in my glory LOL. Every now and again at Christmas when we visit my parents he likes to pop that tape in so all can laugh and point at me, see how Santa is evil? Do you seee!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img] __________________ Reality Show Recaps

12-26-2002, 10:04 PM	#6
Lord of Alcohol Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Charlotte,NC Age: 60 Posts: 4,570	At least your not bitter about Santa or anything Wendy [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] LOL You kick Santa all you want LOL __________________ No

12-26-2002, 10:35 PM	#7
antryg Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2002 Location: Dallas, Tx. Age: 21 Posts: 1,765	Animal, I really appreciate the fact that you see and understand Christmas for the day it is supposed to be. It is my feeling that most people have already removed the religious aspects of the day and celebrate it only as a fill in the blank holiday. By that I mean that people have taken it to be a "free" day and ascribe whatever content to it that they enjoy. It appears that your sense of honesty and integrity in not wanting to debase what for others is a holy day has led you to be labeled a "grinch". Your post makes it clear that this is not the case. If it was called family and friend day, I have no doubt that you would feel quite comfortable in gift exchange etc. Since that is exactly what the day represents for so many they are confused in your desire not to participate. I feel for you. I can see that this stand has not come without a price. I would like to offer some advice that might help. When I visit with friends that are Jewish I always cover my head and have even learned a prayer in Hebrew. When eating with Arab or Muslim friends I am careful to only use my right hand. It is not that I share their religious beliefs but that I honor their belief when I am with them. In the same manner, in those things which do not infringe upon your own values, maybe you could partake in the Christmas season with those around you. Whatever position you take in the future I applaud your compassion and personal honesty. __________________

12-26-2002, 10:54 PM	#8
kev Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: April 4, 2002 Location: North Western Australia Age: 59 Posts: 670	Animal, Xmas never really started out as a holy day as such. It was a way of combating the depression caused by lack of sunlight & poor nutrition in the Northern hemispheres winter. All those preserves & carbohydrates gave people a needed lift. From there it evolved by incorperating many religious facets, not just christian, for a fact christ was not born on xmas day it was just convieniant to use a day that was already a celebration. The giving of gifts probably evolved because it was a happy day & giving gifts makes many people happy. Now in western countries it has become very commercial. Even Santa is commercial, his current image is a product of the coca cola company. In my family we are cutting down on the commercial side of things by putting a limit on what we spend. This makes you think more carefully on what gift to give & tends to make a gift the personal thing that it should be. I think that it is rude not to accept a gift that is given freely because the greatest thrill is in the giving & seeing the expression on a persons face. You dont have to believe in xmas to be a part of it. __________________

12-27-2002, 08:49 AM	#9
Garnet FalconDance Mephistopheles Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: deep within the sylvan splendor.... Age: 60 Posts: 1,443	Animal, don't worry about it! Christmas didn't start out as a gift-giving celebration, anyhow. (Ok, guys, don't worry. I'm not going to give the ultimate, obligatory history lesson ) Actually, it originated much earlier than the christ child's hoopla, as did most of the celebration basics. Santa Claus is a really recent addition and personally, I can't stand the old dude. Christmas is one of those observations which can be, and typically is, both secular and sacred. Don't worry if some people don't understand your separation of the two---it's their issue, not yours. See, I didn't climb on the soapbox __________________ "Nature tells every secret once." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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