Banning Private Schools

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Kaltia: quote: Originally posted by harleyquinn: Kaltia, Best of luck to you, and I hope you do get to be a teacher. I think it's one of the most important jobs and financially unappreciated job there is! love the president line [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]

Thanks, Harleyquacker!
I plan to take a double English/History degree and teach both those subjects in GB for a while, but really I want to teach in the US *flush*[/QUOTE]Of course you do - especially if you want to teach College-level or higher. We may have crap high schools, but our colleges are so good, students actually catch up and surpass their peers in other countries.

[WillowIX]

Hmm I have never been a big fan of the American education system. Perhaps one should ask why students attending private schools get a better education. The only thing I can come up with is funding, that is a lower teacher per student average and better literature. I´m not sure about the quality of teachers so I will refrain from mentioning that as an argument. What would happen to the American students of the same amount of funding went into public schools? Better public schools would be able to compete with private schools and offer a high quality education. Is 17k per year the average cost for attending a private school? I´m not sure banning private schools is the best alternative, perhaps a more prolonged liquidation would be better. But I for one don´t understand why money should be the determining factor for a good education.

[wellard]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Interesting you bring up Religious education, Wellard. On that note: Under the voucher system, the kids who use vouchers to get bused to the private schools (which are *often* religious) must be allowed to abstain from the religious services. Now, that's wrong -- make a Catholic school take a student in and then somehow *not* school them on the religious portions??? Craaazzzy.

Why not? as long as those abstaining from the religous studies had to do some moral or civic studies in lieu. But the real answer imo is to strictly moniter religious education and perhaps make that part of a night school or sunday school thing. that way all children are learning from the same page and there would be less friction from minority religions or the majority agnostics

[Timber Loftis]

But, Wellard, in the USA you have simply crossed a fairly bright line: that of mixing government and religion. And, as any catholic school student can tell you, you can't very well take the Catholocism out of Catholic school - even by a little bit.

[Ar-Cunin]

Don't worry about your stupid kids - with the wages US companies can afford, you can always import smart forigners to do the thinking for you

More seriously - I don't think that abolishing the private schools are the answer to education problems - upgrading/improving the public schools are, even if means raising taxes *gasp*

This grammar (and punctuation ) are also brought to you by a public school [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Well, let me toss out a grenade. I read on the Greedy website today an interesting discussion that the American education crisis (read: we have the dumbest kids in the first world, folks) could be fixed by banning private schools. Bush's idea for school vouchers is certainly idiotic. If you don't think so, I'll be happy to explain why, but it comes down to supply and demand in its simplest form. Succinctly: there is a list as long as my arm of parents fighting to spend $17K a year for blazers and ugly ties at Country Day Academy, so throwing more people into the "buying pool" for private education does not create more spots for students or teachers at those schools - but instead only raises the price of those schools through the competitive buying process. It's a supply side deficit that's the real problem. Fallacy #1, not all private schools require uniforms. That said, what about banning private schools? If all the $200K+ crowd had to send their kids to school with the plebians, they just might have the political will in towns across America to fix the schools through local school board meetings, etc. Plus, the tax base of those schools will not only increase, but being tied to property values, they will increase by a geometric amount on a "per student" basis. Fallacy #2, I make much much less than 200k and I can send my kids to private schools, as a matter of fact, I know a mother who makes 36k a year who manages to send her kid to private school. Thoughts? Fallacy #3 is that assuming that the NEA and the government run schools will give a good education with more money devoted to them is completely unfounded. All you do when you allow the government to run a program is guarantee more massive fraud waste and abuse than is already present. We spend upwards of 60billion annually on public schools and it may actually top 100B fix the corruption and waste and get the schools back to teaching the basics....and not tommy has two mommies and other social issue stuff.

Fact #1 my kids learn more faster in private shcools not hampered by government restrictions and programs and the NEA and AFT.

Fact #2 There is no legal or constitutional reason for making private schools illegal.

Fact #3 It is the people who tell government what to do andnot the other way around...or at least it is supposed to be that way.

Anyway you look at it, three strikes and yerrrr outta there

[Timber Loftis]

Gee, MagiK, so... um.... nice.... to see you trolling the IWF once again. [img]graemlins/dontknowaboutyou.gif[/img] We really have missed the Grumpy Old Muppets lately. But... um... come to think of it, just don't post on any of MY threads, okay?
[img]graemlins/kidding.gif[/img]

[wellard]

Its a two stage project Timber. First improve state schools so that the point of private schools is lost. Then when a more level playing field is achieved we can get to work on church schools (i'd rather save that one for another thread though) But the children come first so, Yes to banning private schools unless out of normal hours AFTER the public school standard is raised

Originally posted by WillowIX: Hmm I have never been a big fan of the American education system. Perhaps one should ask why students attending private schools get a better education. The only thing I can come up with is funding, that is a lower teacher per student average and better literature. I´m not sure about the quality of teachers so I will refrain from mentioning that as an argument. What would happen to the American students of the same amount of funding went into public schools? Better public schools would be able to compete with private schools and offer a high quality education. Is 17k per year the average cost for attending a private school? I´m not sure banning private schools is the best alternative, perhaps a more prolonged liquidation would be better. But I for one don´t understand why money should be the determining factor for a good education.

Willow, MOST US private schools are run by small religious groups who have very little funding, there are tens of thousands of these little "christian schools" floating around out there and Im sure other denominations have them as well, what I do know is that the big BIG BIG difference between them and public schools is discipline, and the priciples of accountability and responsibility that are abscent in public schools.....
There also seems to be a very large difference in the parent participation too, the parents are way more involved and encouraged to be, where as in the Maryland public school systems for example, you are never allowed contact with the childs teachers outside very strictly controlled administration set up situations which discourages meetings by setting time requirements aimed at making meeting dificult and inconvenient. Private schools work with the parents schedules and take a far more personal approach to students and teachers. Blame it on Class sizes but the statistics on it don't bear itout.

[Timber Loftis]

Well, one thing is selectivity. Public schools must teach to the least common denominator - and are structured that way. Heck, I guess all classrooms teach to the near-to-least common denominator.

But, in the private schools, little mary or johnnie has to have xx% in their grades from elsewhere and score xx% on some tests before they can gain admission. So, it's implicit that private schools will have better kids - they don't accept the dummies. [Edit] NORMALLY, that is.

[ 02-05-2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]