Pagan coven seeks hate crime charges vs Christian group

[Azred]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Anyway, I have had my far share of preachers, particularly when I worked in a pagan shop that specialized in insence and psycic readings. These people ranged from Hari Krishna's, to Mormon Missionaries, to Jehovah witnesses and Baptists. I found them all to be quite egotistical, and usually they left my presence angry, because I wouldnt give them any fight or recourse. I would simply say "I respect your beliefs" Ah just the implications that they werent respecting my own was enough to shut them up, usually.

It's amazing what a little quiet politeness seems to do to those looking for a fight, isn't it?

Originally posted by Thoran: Intolerance is one thing I can't tolerate. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I take offense to your intolerance of intolerance! I won't stand for that! [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 05-02-2002, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Azred ]

[flibulzbuth]

If it's not a hate crime, what is it?
Hate crime comes in different flavors, from the simple racist comment to genocide. When we hear it, we think genocide or physical assault, but it has a larger spectrum.
Cranking the volume so high that it disrupts the prossession is not only an attempt to convert, it's an assault on peoples liberty.
Hopefully, the wiccans are pacifists... think about it: if it had happened between Hulster's catholics and protestants, it would have ended in a bloodshed. Hence why i think it's a hate crime.

With rights (free speech) come obligations (respect the others). IMO, i have no problem with, let's say, neo-nazi reunions, litterature etc... as long as they don't act criminally, and as long as i can say what i think of them without fear.
Free speech is one thing, but the laws (the way we restrain "free acting") is a democratic process: it affects everybody without exception.
That's why anarchists still pay their bills, racist bosses still have to employ afro-americans/canadians and that's why religious groups should not throw stones at each other.

[Alexander]

Originally posted by /)eathKiller: well, lets not forget that the christian religeon doesn't exactly state they they MUST convert every non-beliver either... it just happens that many people in the Christian religeon also, just happen to be assholes... those are words comming from a Christian mind you...

Amen.

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

This is just another example of why christians are the most unfriendly bunch of folks you will EVER meet. IMHO if they are smart the wiccans will sue the city since a sherrifs deputy was there with the intent of being a nusance. What would have happened if things had realy gotten out of control?? With a law enforcement officer SO clearly biased can the wiccans ever realy feel safe as long as he is on the job in their town??

[ 05-02-2002, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: The Hunter of Jahanna ]

[Arnabas]

I worked for 8 years in a book store and part of my dept. was the new age/ occult section. I remember two women coming in and threatening me and saying that I had to remove the "satanic" books, or there would be trouble. Strangely enough, they also complained about a book in the religion section (also my dept.) about the Virgin Mary, saying "we were warned about that book! "
I always find it strange that more women aren't into paganism. Why support a patriarchal system that for so long considered women lesser than men, when they could turn to a religion that values the feminine so highly? Whatever. As long as people don't tell me what I should or should not believe. I don't care if you worship a purple jellybean named Fred as long as you are a good person.

[Chewbacca]

I would just have to ask everyone that we not target all Christians or wiccans, or any other group on the whole for that matter. Not only is it against the rules of the forum (I think), it is just as bad as they are for calling pagans "devil-worshipors" and the like. Surely some of them are complete egotists that really need to get over themselves, but not all of them. Lets not generalize...please [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Arnabas: I always find it strange that more women aren't into paganism. Why support a patriarchal system that for so long considered women lesser than men, when they could turn to a religion that values the feminine so highly?

That's a rather simplistic look at why people "turn to a religion".

[AzureWolf]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Arnabas: I always find it strange that more women aren't into paganism. Why support a patriarchal system that for so long considered women lesser than men, when they could turn to a religion that values the feminine so highly?

That's a rather simplistic look at why people "turn to a religion".[/QUOTE]But its also quite an understandable one. Why would you rather stay with a religion where you were considered inferior to men?

[Arnabas]

Yorik,
Hi.
I wasn't really giving reasons to "turn to a religion". Obviously there are many factors that determine a person's beliefs. Too many to list. But I personally am drawn to points of view that hold all people in equal regard. I am not saying that women should be pagan simply because paganism reveres the femine, but I think that would be a factor for me if I was a woman.
Just my personal thoughts. I would have a hard time subscribing to a religion that implied I was somehow "lesser" to another, or worse, that women are the root of all our troubles (Eve).

[F. Gottwald]

i certainly think some of the offending christians needed their respective bottoms spanked, hate crime or no.
religion can be a very important source of personal fulfillment and enlightenment, and it´s sad to have it cast in a bad light by such childish and inconsiderate acts.

my personal experience with both people and religious doctrine caused me to have a very bleak look on christianity (in a nutshell: it´s hard to be truly tolerant if your beliefs say that there is only one - your - god. also, if you believe being a worshipper of your religion is essential to ´salvation´, you´re doing others a favour by converting them, even if you´re using the most extreme means at your disposal - which has some very scary implications).
on the other hand, perhaps i´m being unfair - after all, the people who have it in them to be narrow-minded fanatics will usually subscribe to whatever religion is most common in their immediate surroundings, a fact that does´t really say anything about all the other worshippers.
nevertheless, i´ve met plenty of christians to whom their religion is a great source of both comfort and inner strength, actually the same is true about most religions i have ever encountered - just because i´m adverse to a religion for whatever reasons doesn´t really give me the right and ability to judge it, and even less to judge its worshippers (contrary to what most theologians say, most people seem BETTER to me than their respective religions).

anyway, enough rambling for now... i hope i´ve been a sufficiently polite troll so please use fire and acid in moderation

[ 05-03-2002, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: F. Gottwald ]