Pagan coven seeks hate crime charges vs Christian group - Page 2

dragonwolf · 05-02-2002, 11:01 AM

it was wrong for the christians to do that and they should be told to back off

but it was no hate crime

they do it all the time to my church (mormon) at all of our confresses and special events trying to convert us(keep in mind that the name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints) and telling us we are going to hell

the funny thing is in all of my readings of the bible i have never seen where God says to go out and preach INtollerance of others and their beleafs

the sauceman · 05-02-2002, 11:15 AM

you are absolutely right, Christians shouldnt be intolerant, they should openly accept different people, and different types of religions....
and share with those people the goodness of Christ, not how theyre all going to burn in hell...
I think that group of christians, (and especially the deputy) should be fined a large sum and have to do a lot of service hours....

Yorick · 05-02-2002, 11:23 AM

I've was once at a christian outdoor meeting where a couple of wiccans tried the same thing. Tried blasting their recorded music while we were singing.

I was at another christian meeting where an athiest was on a box shouting and attempting to disrupt the meeting.

No Christian sued these guys for hate crimes.

Ladyzekke · 05-02-2002, 11:50 AM

I wouldn't call it a hate crime either. Hate crimes are usually very serious and involve criminal activity such as vandalism, assault, etc. Sounds like the Christians were just being obnoxious and totally out of line, you get all kinds in this world of ours from all sides, no matter what religion they are. Surprised this got CNN coverage myself.

Sazerac · 05-02-2002, 01:41 PM

Definitely not a hate crime. By placing themselves in a public situation and inviting the public to attend, they can hardly call it a hate crime. Now, they may have some grounds for civil action (don't know for sure on that) but that's about as far as it goes...and BTW, I am sympathetic with the Wiccan worshippers, those so-called "Christians" were way out of line.

If the Christians had broken into a privately held ceremony and tried the same thing, that would be a different circumstance.

-Sazerac

Arnabas · 05-02-2002, 02:57 PM

I have had Christian groups come and disturb a private Samhain rite. I have been told time and again that I am going to hell because I dont' have the exact same beliefs as someone else. Pretty sad, but true. It took a while to convince my then-girlfriend-now-wife that I am not a devil worshipper, because she grew up being taught that pagans are all satan worshippers. Sigh. Since then, I've had the oppotunity to explain to her how it really is and how the church has done some not-so-nice things in the past, too. No religion is entirely right or wrong. I am tired of people who think they have to condemn others for having thoughts of their own. Unfortunately, for some people, converting others is a large part of their belief structure, so I try to tolerate it as best I can.

Chewbacca · 05-02-2002, 03:49 PM

I didnt even answer my own question..ooops. Well I think Hate crime is a little strong language, although disrupting a religious practice is defined as one under california law. It was definitly wrong and disrespectful, as it would be if the reverse were to occur.

I come from an odd form of Shamanism that reconciles the differneces of the wolrds religious paths with the similarities and ties common themes together under the umbrella of an individuals conscience as the moral and ethical authority of that individual's behavior. Harm none and do as you will. Thats were I stand. I take the example Christ left for us with the same weight as Budda's.

Anyway, I have had my far share of preachers, particularly when I worked in a pagan shop that specialized in insence and psycic readings. These people ranged from Hari Krishna's, to Mormon Missionaries, to Jehovah witnesses and Baptists. I found them all to be quite egotistical, and usually they left my presence angry, because I wouldnt give them any fight or recourse. I would simply say "I respect your beliefs" Ah just the implications that they werent respecting my own was enough to shut them up, usually. My friend, a Witch, would start yelling at them, that usually made them leave as well. Serve em right I guess.

We all live on the same planet, we should treat each other as we would want to be treated. Thats the lesson those people in California forgot. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

/)eathKiller · 05-02-2002, 04:21 PM

well, lets not forget that the christian religeon doesn't exactly state they they MUST convert every non-beliver either...

it just happens that many people in the Christian religeon also, just happen to be assholes...

those are words comming from a Christian mind you...

*\Conan/* · 05-02-2002, 05:06 PM

This kind of thing has been going on for a long time. A little LA scurmish..no wonder someone didn't at least swing on another.?? I bet charges were dropped somewhere.

Christians: What about way back when Elijah was stirring up the Baal priests. 1 Kings 18:17-40. Now that would be considered a hate crime now days.

Wicans: seems like the taunting go's both ways..?

Peace! I do beleive that nature fortells things to come myself. When you see the bud upon a tree you know that summer is coming.

Thoran · 05-02-2002, 05:40 PM

Intolerance is one thing I can't tolerate. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I think the wican's should've turned em into a newt.

[ 05-02-2002, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

05-02-2002, 11:15 AM	#12
the sauceman Zhentarim Guard Join Date: April 16, 2002 Location: Southern Cali Age: 39 Posts: 351	you are absolutely right, Christians shouldnt be intolerant, they should openly accept different people, and different types of religions.... and share with those people the goodness of Christ, not how theyre all going to burn in hell... I think that group of christians, (and especially the deputy) should be fined a large sum and have to do a lot of service hours.... __________________ <b>A Proud member of the Penguin Army!</b><br />A Member of <b><i>The Society of Songs and Silent Blades</i></b><br />The Sauceman Cometh...

05-02-2002, 11:23 AM	#13
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 52 Posts: 9,246	I've was once at a christian outdoor meeting where a couple of wiccans tried the same thing. Tried blasting their recorded music while we were singing. I was at another christian meeting where an athiest was on a box shouting and attempting to disrupt the meeting. No Christian sued these guys for hate crimes. __________________ http://www.hughwilson.com

05-02-2002, 11:50 AM	#14
Ladyzekke Ironworks Atomic Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Virginia, U.S.A. Age: 57 Posts: 9,005	I wouldn't call it a hate crime either. Hate crimes are usually very serious and involve criminal activity such as vandalism, assault, etc. Sounds like the Christians were just being obnoxious and totally out of line, you get all kinds in this world of ours from all sides, no matter what religion they are. Surprised this got CNN coverage myself. __________________ Reality Show Recaps

05-02-2002, 01:41 PM	#15
Sazerac Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Monroe, LA Age: 60 Posts: 7,387	Definitely not a hate crime. By placing themselves in a public situation and inviting the public to attend, they can hardly call it a hate crime. Now, they may have some grounds for civil action (don't know for sure on that) but that's about as far as it goes...and BTW, I am sympathetic with the Wiccan worshippers, those so-called "Christians" were way out of line. If the Christians had broken into a privately held ceremony and tried the same thing, that would be a different circumstance. -Sazerac __________________ "And all my days are trances, and all my nightly dreams, Are where thy grey eye glances, and where thy footstep gleams, In what ethereal dances, by what eternal streams..."

05-02-2002, 02:57 PM	#16
Arnabas Baaz Draconian Join Date: October 11, 2001 Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada Age: 53 Posts: 721	I have had Christian groups come and disturb a private Samhain rite. I have been told time and again that I am going to hell because I dont' have the exact same beliefs as someone else. Pretty sad, but true. It took a while to convince my then-girlfriend-now-wife that I am not a devil worshipper, because she grew up being taught that pagans are all satan worshippers. Sigh. Since then, I've had the oppotunity to explain to her how it really is and how the church has done some not-so-nice things in the past, too. No religion is entirely right or wrong. I am tired of people who think they have to condemn others for having thoughts of their own. Unfortunately, for some people, converting others is a large part of their belief structure, so I try to tolerate it as best I can. __________________ Est Sularis oth Mithas

05-02-2002, 11:01 AM	#11
dragonwolf Dungeon Master Join Date: April 18, 2002 Location: south carolina Age: 47 Posts: 67	it was wrong for the christians to do that and they should be told to back off but it was no hate crime they do it all the time to my church (mormon) at all of our confresses and special events trying to convert us(keep in mind that the name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints) and telling us we are going to hell the funny thing is in all of my readings of the bible i have never seen where God says to go out and preach INtollerance of others and their beleafs

05-02-2002, 03:49 PM	#17
Chewbacca Zartan Join Date: July 18, 2001 Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth Age: 50 Posts: 5,373	I didnt even answer my own question..ooops. Well I think Hate crime is a little strong language, although disrupting a religious practice is defined as one under california law. It was definitly wrong and disrespectful, as it would be if the reverse were to occur. I come from an odd form of Shamanism that reconciles the differneces of the wolrds religious paths with the similarities and ties common themes together under the umbrella of an individuals conscience as the moral and ethical authority of that individual's behavior. Harm none and do as you will. Thats were I stand. I take the example Christ left for us with the same weight as Budda's. Anyway, I have had my far share of preachers, particularly when I worked in a pagan shop that specialized in insence and psycic readings. These people ranged from Hari Krishna's, to Mormon Missionaries, to Jehovah witnesses and Baptists. I found them all to be quite egotistical, and usually they left my presence angry, because I wouldnt give them any fight or recourse. I would simply say "I respect your beliefs" Ah just the implications that they werent respecting my own was enough to shut them up, usually. My friend, a Witch, would start yelling at them, that usually made them leave as well. Serve em right I guess. We all live on the same planet, we should treat each other as we would want to be treated. Thats the lesson those people in California forgot. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. __________________ Support Local Music and Record Stores! Got Liberty?

05-02-2002, 04:21 PM	#18
/)eathKiller Dracolisk Join Date: January 5, 2002 Location: Guantanamo Bay, Cuba Age: 38 Posts: 6,043	well, lets not forget that the christian religeon doesn't exactly state they they MUST convert every non-beliver either... it just happens that many people in the Christian religeon also, just happen to be assholes... those are words comming from a Christian mind you... __________________ [img]\"http://membres.lycos.fr/th8or/ZeroSigForIronworks.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> o.o;

05-02-2002, 05:06 PM	#19
\Conan/ Red Dragon Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Age: 62 Posts: 1,512	This kind of thing has been going on for a long time. A little LA scurmish..no wonder someone didn't at least swing on another.?? I bet charges were dropped somewhere. Christians: What about way back when Elijah was stirring up the Baal priests. 1 Kings 18:17-40. Now that would be considered a hate crime now days. Wicans: seems like the taunting go's both ways..? Peace! I do beleive that nature fortells things to come myself. When you see the bud upon a tree you know that summer is coming. __________________ \\Conan/
$\Conan/ is offline$

05-02-2002, 05:40 PM	#20
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 56 Posts: 2,109	Intolerance is one thing I can't tolerate. [img]smile.gif[/img] I think the wican's should've turned em into a newt. [ 05-02-2002, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

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