They cut his head off... - Page 3

Downunda · 02-25-2002, 05:59 AM

Here's one vote for the poll. These people don't seem to respect the western worlds way of life, or of life in general. I believe the only way of stopping people with this sort of mentality is to get them before they get us.
Some may say that this makes us as bad as them, but in my eyes anyone that would kill !INNOCENTS! to attempt to further their cause deserve everything they get.

AzureWolf · 02-25-2002, 06:07 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Downunda:
Some may say that this makes us as bad as them, but in my eyes anyone that would kill !INNOCENTS! to attempt to further their cause deserve everything they get.

Ummmm....this is EXACTLY what the US has done. Innocent Afghans have died to further the US's "war". Just because they are not from "the land of the free" does not been they are not innocents that die just as easy as an american.

SSJ4Sephiroth · 02-25-2002, 06:16 AM

quote:
Originally posted by AzureWolf:

Just OT a bit but this was not always the case. Remember the drafting for vietnam?

actually unless my information is flawed we still have to register for it in case they decide to bring that back.

K T Ong · 02-25-2002, 06:35 AM

Now firstly, I want to clarify a couple things. I don't condone what those terrorists do at all. I really think that what they have done to date is very sick, very sad and very bad indeed, and that they certainly need a spanking, to put it mildly. And I can also imagine how difficult it can be for an American (I'm not one) to think about the whole thing in a cool-headed way, and not get emotionally carried away by it all.

But still, isn't it necessary to think about the whole thing in a cool-headed way, if we are to really see where the problem really lies? And if we sit down and really come to think of it in a cool-headed way, is the West all that blameless?

Far be it for me to say anything that might hurt people's feelings, but it is surely not all that wrong to say that the affluence and power enjoyed by the West in general and America in particular are predicated upon the centuries-long exploitation of non-Western peoples the world over -- a process which in a sense is still continuing today through the operations of an unfair global economic system. A system which is furthermore driving us all towards an ecological abyss.

Compared to this, what are a few bombings and a few unhappy cases of decapitation? Certainly, they're bad, very bad, but isn't what the West has done (and is still doing) even worse?

All in all, I really don't think the West is morally in all that superior a position relative to those terrorists -- the West just doesn't do it that 'nakedly', that's all.

And please do not misunderstand me. I'm not saying every Westerner is bad. (Hey, I'm not a terrorist.

) I'm sure most of you folks on these message boards are real darlings to know.

But still, with the rarest exceptions, what I've related above is surely the line taken by well nigh all those in positions of power in the West since 200 to 300 years ago. And that's something we need to do something about as well.

As Jesus Christ said so well in the Sermon on the Mount, get the beam out of your eye ere you presume to get the mote out of another's eye.

Just my two cents...

[ 02-25-2002: Message edited by: K T Ong ]

Downunda · 02-25-2002, 06:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by AzureWolf:

Ummmm....this is EXACTLY what the US has done. Innocent Afghans have died to further the US's "war". Just because they are not from "the land of the free" does not been they are not innocents that die just as easy as an american.

(very humbly) - Point taken bud

And it would be fantastic if we could click our fingers and have all "bad" people in the world locked away from all the "good" people, but this just ain't gonna happen.
There is still a big difference (and this by no means condones the killing of innocents) in that the western world would NEVER "deliberatly" kill innocents whereas the terrorists go out of their way to cause pain and sufferring.

K T Ong · 02-25-2002, 06:45 AM

quote:
There is still a big difference (and this by no means condones the killing of innocents) in that the western world would NEVER "deliberatly" kill innocents...

I'm deeply sceptical about this...

[ 02-25-2002: Message edited by: K T Ong ]

AzureWolf · 02-25-2002, 06:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Downunda:

(very humbly) - Point taken bud
And it would be fantastic if we could click our fingers and have all "bad" people in the world locked away from all the "good" people, but this just ain't gonna happen.
There is still a big difference (and this by no means condones the killing of innocents) in that the western world would NEVER "deliberatly" kill innocents whereas the terrorists go out of their way to cause pain and sufferring.

I know there is a difference

But I just dislike it when the US takes the moral highground on this when they have no right to. By no means do the terroists either but atm neither is exactly trying to avert harming innocents. Yes the US isnt doing it intentionally but they die just the same, and thats why all this parading around about how america is this shining star of the west offends me.

OT: At least we can debate these things without the heated arguments ppl used to have around here

Downunda · 02-25-2002, 06:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by K T Ong:

process which in a sense is still continuing today through the operations of an unfair global economic system. A system which is furthermore driving us all towards an ecological abyss.

All in all, I really don't think the West is morally in all that superior a position relative to those terrorists -- the West just doesn't do it that 'nakedly', that's all.
But still, with the rarest exceptions, what I've related above is surely the line taken by well nigh all those in positions of power in the West since 200 to 300 years ago. And that's something we need to do something about as well.

Good points

Personally I'd rather live a lifetime under the "corruption" of the western world than a month under the oppresive regime the Taleban.
I can also see and agree with your point of veiw regarding the west building its empire though the destruction of lesser developed nations, the question is... what can we do?

AzureWolf · 02-25-2002, 06:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Downunda:

Good points
Personally I'd rather live a lifetime under the "corruption" of the western world than a month under the oppresive regime the Taleban.
I can also see and agree with your point of veiw regarding the west building its empire though the destruction of lesser developed nations, the question is... what can we do?

IMO NZ is far ahead morally than most western developed countries. You may not think so but when I moved to Aus from NZ you can tell many differences and to me NZ seems to emulate some of the higher moral qualities. Maybe because it is such a small country it is easier to bring about change but thats just the way it seems to me. Altho Helen Clark still looks as much like a horse as she always did [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Downunda · 02-25-2002, 07:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by AzureWolf:

I know there is a difference
The US isnt doing it intentionally but they die just the same, and thats why all this parading around about how america is this shining star of the west offends me.

Just curious, but how do you see America exactly?
What you say above is very true in that that is how a certain president projects himself.
Do you see it as a bully, beating the crap out of the little kid because the little kid kicked it in the shin or as something else?
Again, I'm not disrespecting your opinion, just curious as to how you veiw them. [img]smile.gif[/img]

02-25-2002, 05:59 AM	#21
Downunda Set - Egyptian God of Chaos Join Date: January 7, 2002 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Age: 45 Posts: 2,975	Here's one vote for the poll. These people don't seem to respect the western worlds way of life, or of life in general. I believe the only way of stopping people with this sort of mentality is to get them before they get us. Some may say that this makes us as bad as them, but in my eyes anyone that would kill !INNOCENTS! to attempt to further their cause deserve everything they get. __________________ \"Doing stuff is overrated, like Hitler, he did lots of stuff, but doesn\'t everybody wish he\'d just stayed at home and smoked pot?!?\"

02-25-2002, 06:07 AM	#22
AzureWolf 20th Level Warrior Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: . Age: 40 Posts: 2,762	quote: Originally posted by Downunda: Some may say that this makes us as bad as them, but in my eyes anyone that would kill !INNOCENTS! to attempt to further their cause deserve everything they get. Ummmm....this is EXACTLY what the US has done. Innocent Afghans have died to further the US's "war". Just because they are not from "the land of the free" does not been they are not innocents that die just as easy as an american.

02-25-2002, 06:16 AM	#23
SSJ4Sephiroth Beholder Join Date: May 4, 2001 Location: The Outside Looking In Age: 37 Posts: 4,361	quote: Originally posted by AzureWolf: Just OT a bit but this was not always the case. Remember the drafting for vietnam? actually unless my information is flawed we still have to register for it in case they decide to bring that back.

02-25-2002, 06:35 AM	#24
K T Ong Symbol of Cyric Join Date: January 27, 2002 Location: Plateau of Singapore Age: 60 Posts: 1,230	Now firstly, I want to clarify a couple things. I don't condone what those terrorists do at all. I really think that what they have done to date is very sick, very sad and very bad indeed, and that they certainly need a spanking, to put it mildly. And I can also imagine how difficult it can be for an American (I'm not one) to think about the whole thing in a cool-headed way, and not get emotionally carried away by it all. But still, isn't it necessary to think about the whole thing in a cool-headed way, if we are to really see where the problem really lies? And if we sit down and really come to think of it in a cool-headed way, is the West all that blameless? Far be it for me to say anything that might hurt people's feelings, but it is surely not all that wrong to say that the affluence and power enjoyed by the West in general and America in particular are predicated upon the centuries-long exploitation of non-Western peoples the world over -- a process which in a sense is still continuing today through the operations of an unfair global economic system. A system which is furthermore driving us all towards an ecological abyss. Compared to this, what are a few bombings and a few unhappy cases of decapitation? Certainly, they're bad, very bad, but isn't what the West has done (and is still doing) even worse? All in all, I really don't think the West is morally in all that superior a position relative to those terrorists -- the West just doesn't do it that 'nakedly', that's all. And please do not misunderstand me. I'm not saying every Westerner is bad. (Hey, I'm not a terrorist. ) I'm sure most of you folks on these message boards are real darlings to know. But still, with the rarest exceptions, what I've related above is surely the line taken by well nigh all those in positions of power in the West since 200 to 300 years ago. And that's something we need to do something about as well. As Jesus Christ said so well in the Sermon on the Mount, get the beam out of your eye ere you presume to get the mote out of another's eye. Just my two cents... [ 02-25-2002: Message edited by: K T Ong ] __________________ <br />Look! Everyone\'s admiring me! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Big Grin]\" src=\"biggrin.gif\" />

02-25-2002, 06:35 AM	#25
Downunda Set - Egyptian God of Chaos Join Date: January 7, 2002 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Age: 45 Posts: 2,975	quote: Originally posted by AzureWolf: Ummmm....this is EXACTLY what the US has done. Innocent Afghans have died to further the US's "war". Just because they are not from "the land of the free" does not been they are not innocents that die just as easy as an american. (very humbly) - Point taken bud And it would be fantastic if we could click our fingers and have all "bad" people in the world locked away from all the "good" people, but this just ain't gonna happen. There is still a big difference (and this by no means condones the killing of innocents) in that the western world would NEVER "deliberatly" kill innocents whereas the terrorists go out of their way to cause pain and sufferring. __________________ \"Doing stuff is overrated, like Hitler, he did lots of stuff, but doesn\'t everybody wish he\'d just stayed at home and smoked pot?!?\"

02-25-2002, 06:45 AM	#26
K T Ong Symbol of Cyric Join Date: January 27, 2002 Location: Plateau of Singapore Age: 60 Posts: 1,230	quote: There is still a big difference (and this by no means condones the killing of innocents) in that the western world would NEVER "deliberatly" kill innocents... I'm deeply sceptical about this... [ 02-25-2002: Message edited by: K T Ong ] __________________ <br />Look! Everyone\'s admiring me! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Big Grin]\" src=\"biggrin.gif\" />

02-25-2002, 06:49 AM	#27
AzureWolf 20th Level Warrior Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: . Age: 40 Posts: 2,762	quote: Originally posted by Downunda: (very humbly) - Point taken bud And it would be fantastic if we could click our fingers and have all "bad" people in the world locked away from all the "good" people, but this just ain't gonna happen. There is still a big difference (and this by no means condones the killing of innocents) in that the western world would NEVER "deliberatly" kill innocents whereas the terrorists go out of their way to cause pain and sufferring. I know there is a difference But I just dislike it when the US takes the moral highground on this when they have no right to. By no means do the terroists either but atm neither is exactly trying to avert harming innocents. Yes the US isnt doing it intentionally but they die just the same, and thats why all this parading around about how america is this shining star of the west offends me. OT: At least we can debate these things without the heated arguments ppl used to have around here

02-25-2002, 06:50 AM	#28
Downunda Set - Egyptian God of Chaos Join Date: January 7, 2002 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Age: 45 Posts: 2,975	quote: Originally posted by K T Ong: process which in a sense is still continuing today through the operations of an unfair global economic system. A system which is furthermore driving us all towards an ecological abyss. All in all, I really don't think the West is morally in all that superior a position relative to those terrorists -- the West just doesn't do it that 'nakedly', that's all. But still, with the rarest exceptions, what I've related above is surely the line taken by well nigh all those in positions of power in the West since 200 to 300 years ago. And that's something we need to do something about as well. Good points Personally I'd rather live a lifetime under the "corruption" of the western world than a month under the oppresive regime the Taleban. I can also see and agree with your point of veiw regarding the west building its empire though the destruction of lesser developed nations, the question is... what can we do? __________________ \"Doing stuff is overrated, like Hitler, he did lots of stuff, but doesn\'t everybody wish he\'d just stayed at home and smoked pot?!?\"

02-25-2002, 06:55 AM	#29
AzureWolf 20th Level Warrior Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: . Age: 40 Posts: 2,762	quote: Originally posted by Downunda: Good points Personally I'd rather live a lifetime under the "corruption" of the western world than a month under the oppresive regime the Taleban. I can also see and agree with your point of veiw regarding the west building its empire though the destruction of lesser developed nations, the question is... what can we do? IMO NZ is far ahead morally than most western developed countries. You may not think so but when I moved to Aus from NZ you can tell many differences and to me NZ seems to emulate some of the higher moral qualities. Maybe because it is such a small country it is easier to bring about change but thats just the way it seems to me. Altho Helen Clark still looks as much like a horse as she always did [img]tongue.gif[/img]

02-25-2002, 07:03 AM	#30
Downunda Set - Egyptian God of Chaos Join Date: January 7, 2002 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Age: 45 Posts: 2,975	quote: Originally posted by AzureWolf: I know there is a difference The US isnt doing it intentionally but they die just the same, and thats why all this parading around about how america is this shining star of the west offends me. Just curious, but how do you see America exactly? What you say above is very true in that that is how a certain president projects himself. Do you see it as a bully, beating the crap out of the little kid because the little kid kicked it in the shin or as something else? Again, I'm not disrespecting your opinion, just curious as to how you veiw them. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ \"Doing stuff is overrated, like Hitler, he did lots of stuff, but doesn\'t everybody wish he\'d just stayed at home and smoked pot?!?\"

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