Do science and magic mix?

[Scholarcs]

alchemy is when you try to turn lead into gold...possible with nuclear reactions, but hugely expensive. The old alchemists thought you could do it with chemical reactions, but they were wrong.

[Durwyn]

Interesting question... Well Magic is sort of like Religion. And you can never mix religiton with sicence really... From my point of view Magic really cant be 'mixed' with science, because science is just high tech, and Magic is the stuff that helps achive the things that a high tech gaget or a plane or something could do, but with Magic you can fly, cast deadly spells, and its much different from firing a gun and flying in a plane. So I guess they both can be used along side but no way can they mix .

[salom]

i personaly dont think sience and magic should be mixed. It makes the game less fun when there mixed but thats just my opionion

[Neb]

I see no reason why they should be unmixable, science does not exclude magic, just like it does not exclude religion or any other paranormal thing.

Even though the CURRENT laws of physics might mark ghosts, gods and magic as impossible, how can we say that the current laws of physics are correct?

Welcome to IW K T Ong! Enjoy your stay here [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Durwyn]

Oh yea K T Ong, WELCOME TO IRON WORKS MY FRIEND! ENJOY YOUR STAY!

[K T Ong]

Thanks for the welcome, everyone. [img]smile.gif[/img] This is such a friendly message board!

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Even though the CURRENT laws of physics might mark ghosts, gods and magic as impossible, how can we say that the current laws of physics are correct?

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Largely agree. Anyone know about pyramid power, by the way?

I would like to answer YES to your Question KT..it would be a great place if it were true..unfortunately for me, I have yet to see any proof anywhere that "magic" when applied to a supernatural occurance/event/power exists. I think the world would be a much more interestingplace if magic did truely exist (as long as its source wasnt some evil entity) Unfortunately for me, I have a dificult enough time believeing in my religious faith, let alone a power that works outside or apart from the sciences. Im not dissing those of you who do believe, Im just saying I don't but wish I could.

When I say I see no proof of magic, I am not implying that I can explain everything that I have seen or experienced rationally. I just can't attribute those anomalies to magic per se.

Pax

[K T Ong]

As some of the folks here have suggested, magic need not be something lying outside of the domain of science. But then I suppose it comes down to how one defines 'magic'.

Some scientists have actually conducted experiments to verify the existence of paranormal powers such as telepathy, telekinesis and clairvoyance. The results have very often been positive. That's a bit of real magic there, I guess.

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Originally posted by K T Ong:
As some of the folks here have suggested, magic need not be something lying outside of the domain of science. But then I suppose it comes down to how one defines 'magic'.

Some scientists have actually conducted experiments to verify the existence of paranormal powers such as telepathy, telekinesis and clairvoyance. The results have very often been positive. That's a bit of real magic there, I guess.

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Actually I think if the numbers are checked, that Scientific attempts to prove the existance of the "paranormal" have mostly been negative and not positive. It seems that under controlled laboratory conditions, psychic events and powers seem to ....fade. The most frequent explanation being that the conditions needed for scientifc observation are in some way anathama to the psychic or paranormal energies.

During the Cold War both the USA and the USSR spent hundreds of millions on "psychic" research and they weren't the first, Nazi Germany was deep into the occult and other societies before were too, unfortunatly the only certain thing that came out of any of those research efforts is that we do not have armies of Psychic warriors running around, we do not have cadre's of Mystic warriors in our armies and in general I don't see the every day equivelent of Buffy's Willow wandering around doing good or evil in publicc with their mystic abilities. Now it could be that people who are endowed with such abilities are just on a higher spiritual plain and do not wish to seek fame, wealth or power. However I think the first thing any true mystic should want to do is rid the world of the tele-psychics we see on late night TV. They are as bad as the tele-evangelists.

[ 02-03-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Garnet FalconDance]

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Originally posted by MagiK:


Actually I think if the numbers are checked, that Scientific attempts to prove the existance of the "paranormal" have mostly been negative and not positive. It seems that under controlled laboratory conditions, psychic events and powers seem to ....fade. The most frequent explanation being that the conditions needed for scientifc observation are in some way anathama to the psychic or paranormal energies.

<>I don't see the every day equivelent of Buffy's Willow wandering around doing good or evil in publicc with their mystic abilities. Now it could be that people who are endowed with such abilities are just on a higher spiritual plain and do not wish to seek fame, wealth or power. However I think the first thing any true mystic should want to do is rid the world of the tele-psychics we see on late night TV. They are as bad as the tele-evangelists.

[ 02-03-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

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You knew sooner or later I'd have to wade in, didn't you...... [img]smile.gif[/img]

The opinions voiced below do not necessarily represent those of the establishment or those of any other known agency...

IMO, one of the premier reasons for the results fizzling when science tries to 'prove' esp or any other 'paranormal' phenomenon is simple...science tries to quantify, to place artificial parameters on something that can't even be measured by scientific means to begin with, and if a result does not match the preconceived reasoning then it is considered null and void. If the average human uses considerably less than 10% of their brain capacity and geniuses slightly more, than how in the world do these folks reckon they can march in and measure/prove/disprove the use of capacity that science can only *guess* is available??!!?? WHO is going to build the machines to measure? If such 'powers' (such a cheesy word) exist, they are obviously 'wild' in that they are not deliberately bred traits and as such cannot be bound by common means.

I find it amazing that science discounts 'paranormal' abilities which have turned up in generational lines of families for years and years. 'Second sight' has run rampant in the maternal side of my father's family and to some extent in my mother's as well for *several* generations (try well over a hundred years that I have discovered and perhaps many more) yet it is on the list of those things which cannot be proven by scientific measures and is typically thought to be mere coincidence.

So, back to the question (tho I'd gladly rant a bit more if you like ). Do science and magic mix? In today's society, no. In the society of a hundred years ago, no. In the more distant past--much of what we now think as science was deemed magic originally! Conception, reading of weather (using atmospheric changes, intense observation of seasonal patterns, etc), telling 'good' water from 'bad', the list goes on forever. Will science ever prove the paranormal? Hell no! If science were to definitely prove the presence or the absence of such things as ESP, UFOs, second sight, spell casting (one of my personal favs ), etc., they'd be hard pressed to remain 'in power' as there would be very little for them to research!

Are magical spells possible? Yes. Is just anyone able to cast spells? Most anyone can cast lower-level spells but not many can do the 'big ones'. Will I define what I mean by lower level and higher level? If asked to, but remember my answers may not be the same as the ones given by another practitioner of the arcane. Do I typically use 'magic'? Yes, I suppose I do tho I really don't consciously do so most of the time. Are my magics effective? Yes, with varying degrees of accuracy. Can I cast Improved Invisibility? No. Fireball? No. Spiritual Wrath? A version of it, not nearly as snazzy as IWD's, tho.

Is magic present in everyday life? Yes, it's all around. It even--*gasp*--exists in most religious beliefs though it may not be couched in that exact term.

As for the modern day Buffy's--most people I know of who use 'magic' for the benefit of others (myself included) do not go around blowing their own horns. I don't know about the 'higher spiritual plane' stuff since I tend to view my own humble abilities as part of my natural psyche given as a gift by Divinity and further developed as the result of a whole lot of learning, trial and error. And, as a competent reader of the tarot, trust me--if I could get Miss Cleo off the airwaves, I'd do it in a heartbeat!!! She does more damage to us serious readers with her half-baked assinine b.s. than .....