Hand of Bane alignment shift

javan · 09-12-2006, 04:49 PM

My Lawful Good monk returned the Hand of Bane today and received (among other goodies [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) a 5 point shift towards Evil and a 5 point shift towards Chaotic! I was warned that this may affect my progression as a monk if it continues...

I seem to remember my Chaotic Good Bards getting points towards Evil and Lawful when a party member returned the artifact.

Questions:

1) Does the quest always move your alignment towards True Neutral? I don't play Evil characters so I haven't tested this theory out...

2) Is there a quest that (always) moves your alignment towards Lawful? I know being nice to Savros' widow will return my alignment towards Good.

robertthebard · 09-12-2006, 04:51 PM

The best bet is to let somebody else turn in the hand. Then you only take a one point hit, and yes, it moves you towards true neutral, as far as I can tell.

Greything · 09-13-2006, 08:42 AM

Possible spoiler:

-

-

-

Just take your reward and walk away.

It's the conversation afterwards, not the quest, that alters the alignment points.

javan · 09-13-2006, 10:23 AM

Greything, according to my logs the alignment shift happens as soon as you turn in the Hand

...

[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:11] Delundir Ste'lyan: Welcome back, Phystov. Do you have The Hand of Bane yet?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Phystov Steel: I sure do! And what a pain it was!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Your journal has been updated. Return The Hand of Bane
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Delundir Ste'lyan: Elminster and I are deeply in your debt! You have no idea what good you have done here today. Thank thee so much.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Acquired 50GP
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Your actions have shifted your alignment 5 point(s) toward Chaotic.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Your actions have shifted your alignment 5 point(s) toward Evil.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] If you continue your current course, you will no longer be able to advance as a Monk.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Lost Item: The Hand of Bane
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Phystov Steel: What reward do I get?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Delundir Ste'lyan: Ah! Yes, Here. This is a very powerful artifact from the plane of shadow. And the other item here is... well, you will enjoy it. Here...
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Acquired 2000000GP
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Experience Points Gained: 70000
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Your character has gained enough experience to advance a level.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Acquired Item: [unique] Finders Stone Amulet
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Acquired Item: Ancient Dagger of Shadow +9
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:47] Phystov Steel: Thank thee! I must be off now!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:47] Delundir Ste'lyan: Wait... You did very well this day, my friend. Your skills are indeed grand indeed! Elminster and I could use someone like you to help us. Are you interested?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:56] Phystov Steel: I am indeed, Delundir! Tell me more!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:56] Delundir Ste'lyan: I am part of a group that is for good, and to keep the balance. We are known as Harpers. What a Harper does is keep evil at bay, and strive to do goodly things for the common folk that cannot. Are you interested?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:02:09] Phystov Steel: It would be a pleasure working for the Harpers, Delundir! How does one become one?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:02:09] Delundir Ste'lyan: Excellent, Phystov. To join the Harpers, you must prove yourself over time. Killing the Cult of the Dragon's Leader is one giant step in the direction, for sure! We will keep an eye on you, and when it is time, we shall find you, and ask you to join.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:02:23] Elvirothrade has joined as a player..
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:02:27] Phystov Steel: Thank you! I will indeed strive to do good throughout the land, and this cursed Dungeon!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:02:27] Delundir Ste'lyan: We shall meet again, my friend. Safe travels!

robertthebard · 09-13-2006, 11:51 AM

The moral of the story is, if there are two of you, and one of you isn't alignment sensitive, let them turn in the hand, because party members only take a one point hit. I actually took a 5 point hit towards law, but 0 on my neutral. So the move towards True neutral seems more substantiated.

Greything · 09-13-2006, 03:15 PM

My apologies to Javan and any others if I have been misleading. It does seem that, as robertthebard suggests, what happens must be alignment sensitive

I haven't got a recent log for that quest and can't check what has happened to me in the past.

I do play mostly Neutral characters and, if I recall correctly, the quest shifts them 5 points towards good or evil depending how I answer the enquiry about working for the Harpers.

With a Lawful Good character there is only one way to go so maybe they take the 5 point hits towards Evil and Chaos automatically.

The moral? What do Neutral characters care about morals?

T-D-C · 09-13-2006, 06:40 PM

Why would returning the Hand to the harpers shift your alignment that way ? Should you be getting Good points?

Or a better solution would be the following

1. Give the hand some evil magic properties (kind of like the drow trinket). If you choose to keep it you get evil and chaotic.

2. You hand it in to the harpers and get good to lawful alignment points.

3. You destroy it and get no alignment shift.

Would that work?

[ 09-14-2006, 02:35 AM: Message edited by: T-D-C ]

robertthebard · 09-14-2006, 12:09 AM

What's the Harper's main objective though? Protect the balance. I do believe they would do evil deeds to that end, just as quickly as they would good ones. In the long run, shifting towards True Neutral would be the perfect thing for somebody that is going to be a harper. Speculation abounds in that, but it seems logical.

T-D-C · 09-14-2006, 02:30 AM

True true.

I would like to see more ways in Undermountain to swing your alignment via quests. We need some more in there.

EDIT:
Ok if the harpers are all about balance then how about the following

1. Give the item to the harpers (move towards neutral)
2. Destroy the item (move towards good, lawful)
3. Keep the item (move towards evil, chaotic)

If you keep the item it can only be usable by evil characters.

[ 09-14-2006, 02:33 AM: Message edited by: T-D-C ]

roddybug · 09-14-2006, 08:23 AM

I've always felt that the Harpers were a vaguely good organization, helping the oppressed and stuff. If things are okay then they'll leave it alone. But there has been a schism, wikipedea explains;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpers

09-12-2006, 04:51 PM	#2
robertthebard Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Wichita, KS USA Age: 60 Posts: 4,537	The best bet is to let somebody else turn in the hand. Then you only take a one point hit, and yes, it moves you towards true neutral, as far as I can tell. __________________ To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free. Good Music: Here. Interesting read, one of my blogs.

09-13-2006, 10:23 AM	#4
javan Zhentarim Guard Join Date: September 5, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 65 Posts: 396	Greything, according to my logs the alignment shift happens as soon as you turn in the Hand ... [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:11] Delundir Ste'lyan: Welcome back, Phystov. Do you have The Hand of Bane yet? [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Phystov Steel: I sure do! And what a pain it was! [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Your journal has been updated. Return The Hand of Bane [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Delundir Ste'lyan: Elminster and I are deeply in your debt! You have no idea what good you have done here today. Thank thee so much. [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Acquired 50GP [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Your actions have shifted your alignment 5 point(s) toward Chaotic. [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Your actions have shifted your alignment 5 point(s) toward Evil. [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] If you continue your current course, you will no longer be able to advance as a Monk. [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:15] Lost Item: The Hand of Bane [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Phystov Steel: What reward do I get? [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Delundir Ste'lyan: Ah! Yes, Here. This is a very powerful artifact from the plane of shadow. And the other item here is... well, you will enjoy it. Here... [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Acquired 2000000GP [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Experience Points Gained: 70000 [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Your character has gained enough experience to advance a level. [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Acquired Item: [unique] Finders Stone Amulet [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:36] Acquired Item: Ancient Dagger of Shadow +9 [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:47] Phystov Steel: Thank thee! I must be off now! [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:47] Delundir Ste'lyan: Wait... You did very well this day, my friend. Your skills are indeed grand indeed! Elminster and I could use someone like you to help us. Are you interested? [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:56] Phystov Steel: I am indeed, Delundir! Tell me more! [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:01:56] Delundir Ste'lyan: I am part of a group that is for good, and to keep the balance. We are known as Harpers. What a Harper does is keep evil at bay, and strive to do goodly things for the common folk that cannot. Are you interested? [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:02:09] Phystov Steel: It would be a pleasure working for the Harpers, Delundir! How does one become one? [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:02:09] Delundir Ste'lyan: Excellent, Phystov. To join the Harpers, you must prove yourself over time. Killing the Cult of the Dragon's Leader is one giant step in the direction, for sure! We will keep an eye on you, and when it is time, we shall find you, and ask you to join. [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:02:23] Elvirothrade has joined as a player.. [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:02:27] Phystov Steel: Thank you! I will indeed strive to do good throughout the land, and this cursed Dungeon! [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Sep 12 13:02:27] Delundir Ste'lyan: We shall meet again, my friend. Safe travels! __________________ When the going gets tough, the bard goes drinking- Bard's Tale

09-13-2006, 11:51 AM	#5
robertthebard Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Wichita, KS USA Age: 60 Posts: 4,537	The moral of the story is, if there are two of you, and one of you isn't alignment sensitive, let them turn in the hand, because party members only take a one point hit. I actually took a 5 point hit towards law, but 0 on my neutral. So the move towards True neutral seems more substantiated. __________________ To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free. Good Music: Here. Interesting read, one of my blogs.

09-13-2006, 06:40 PM	#7
T-D-C Ironworks Moderator Join Date: October 26, 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 4,415	Why would returning the Hand to the harpers shift your alignment that way ? Should you be getting Good points? Or a better solution would be the following 1. Give the hand some evil magic properties (kind of like the drow trinket). If you choose to keep it you get evil and chaotic. 2. You hand it in to the harpers and get good to lawful alignment points. 3. You destroy it and get no alignment shift. Would that work? [ 09-14-2006, 02:35 AM: Message edited by: T-D-C ] __________________

09-14-2006, 12:09 AM	#8
robertthebard Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Wichita, KS USA Age: 60 Posts: 4,537	What's the Harper's main objective though? Protect the balance. I do believe they would do evil deeds to that end, just as quickly as they would good ones. In the long run, shifting towards True Neutral would be the perfect thing for somebody that is going to be a harper. Speculation abounds in that, but it seems logical. __________________ To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free. Good Music: Here. Interesting read, one of my blogs.

09-12-2006, 04:49 PM	#1
javan Zhentarim Guard Join Date: September 5, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 65 Posts: 396	My Lawful Good monk returned the Hand of Bane today and received (among other goodies [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) a 5 point shift towards Evil and a 5 point shift towards Chaotic! I was warned that this may affect my progression as a monk if it continues... I seem to remember my Chaotic Good Bards getting points towards Evil and Lawful when a party member returned the artifact. Questions: 1) Does the quest always move your alignment towards True Neutral? I don't play Evil characters so I haven't tested this theory out... 2) Is there a quest that (always) moves your alignment towards Lawful? I know being nice to Savros' widow will return my alignment towards Good.

09-13-2006, 08:42 AM	#3
Greything Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: June 25, 2004 Location: UK Posts: 633	Possible spoiler: - - - Just take your reward and walk away. It's the conversation afterwards, not the quest, that alters the alignment points.

09-13-2006, 03:15 PM	#6
Greything Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: June 25, 2004 Location: UK Posts: 633	My apologies to Javan and any others if I have been misleading. It does seem that, as robertthebard suggests, what happens must be alignment sensitive I haven't got a recent log for that quest and can't check what has happened to me in the past. I do play mostly Neutral characters and, if I recall correctly, the quest shifts them 5 points towards good or evil depending how I answer the enquiry about working for the Harpers. With a Lawful Good character there is only one way to go so maybe they take the 5 point hits towards Evil and Chaos automatically. The moral? What do Neutral characters care about morals?

09-14-2006, 02:30 AM	#9
T-D-C Ironworks Moderator Join Date: October 26, 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 4,415	True true. I would like to see more ways in Undermountain to swing your alignment via quests. We need some more in there. EDIT: Ok if the harpers are all about balance then how about the following 1. Give the item to the harpers (move towards neutral) 2. Destroy the item (move towards good, lawful) 3. Keep the item (move towards evil, chaotic) If you keep the item it can only be usable by evil characters. [ 09-14-2006, 02:33 AM: Message edited by: T-D-C ] __________________

09-14-2006, 08:23 AM	#10
roddybug Manshoon Join Date: December 2, 2003 Location: United Kingdom Age: 55 Posts: 215	I've always felt that the Harpers were a vaguely good organization, helping the oppressed and stuff. If things are okay then they'll leave it alone. But there has been a schism, wikipedea explains; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpers __________________ Why should I let the toad work Squat on my life? - Philip Larkin

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