I'm expecting a call from the police...

[Lord of Alcohol]

Some just dont truly understand progress. Its not all good and some battles deserve to be fought I agree. And some dont. I fully agree with MANY conservation attempts, many of which succeed. Protesting against everything is folly, it make the organization look like a joke. Grow up

[This message has been edited by Lord of Alcohol (edited 07-25-2001).]

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: Some just dont truly understand progress. Its not all good and some battles deserve to be fought. And some dont. I fully agree with MANY conservation attempts, mant of which succeed. Protesting against everything is folly, it make the organization look like a joke. Grow up

LoA, I don't wish to fight with you, or anyone. And I am glad to read that you agree with conservation
However, neither Greenpeace nor Friends of the Earth 'protest against everything'. They are sensible, well-organised, and CARE about the planet WE and our descendants have to live on. If people DON'T fight for this planet then all the profit in the world won't save it. Think on.
Caring for the earth is not a joke.
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[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 07-26-2001).]

[Grand-Ranger]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Errmmmm... You call yourself a Ranger?! Ask Minsc and Boo! Seriously: no disrespect, but you seem incredibly ill-informed. I should get a job at Esso, if I were you - they will love you!

I knew this was coming


Rangers ARE NOT DRUIDS!! Rangers have more of a conenction with animals anyway, ranger are protecotrs of things that need to be protected. And in my point of few there are many woods/ forests in the world so they dont *need* to be protected that is a Druids job. In traditional DND Ranger weant even nessaclery portecotrs I dont thing.

At any rate, no I am not geting any type of dumbass job like esso or whatever.



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So if in the forest look behind you, because that where the ranger is going to be

[Ladyzekke]

I wish things were like they used to be on this Forum. On our old "blue board", when a thread or topic was approached, everyone would post their own opinions on said subject, and nobody addressed anyone personally to disagree with them, or call them a flamer and flame them back, we all just posted our opinions and that was that for the most part, we "agreed to disagree" as we all respected eachother and our differing opinions.

As for me and my opinion on this topic? Not even gonna, as why bother at this point...

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[nick1979]

Originally posted by ladyzekke: I wish things were like they used to be on this Forum. On our old "blue board", when a thread or topic was approached, everyone would post their own opinions on said subject, and nobody addressed anyone personally to disagree with them, or call them a flamer and flame them back, we all just posted our opinions and that was that for the most part, we "agreed to disagree" as we all respected eachother and our differing opinions. As for me and my opinion on this topic? Not even gonna, as why bother at this point...

Absolutely correct. We must remember that we are all diffrent, but very much alike. We must take in each others opions and express ours, but not do it thoughtlessly. Like it or not for boards like this to work we must get along.


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[Moridin]

I am going to make one (more) comment on this subject!

Look at this problem logically. You have corporations, world-wide organizations, and governments vs. protestors.

Corporations are going to do what makes them profits...end of story. They will do what 'little' they can to try and improve the environment, either through monetary donations or through actual clean-up projects. But in the end it is about profits. We NEED electricity and we WILL purchase electricity from the electric company. We have no choice unless we go back to the 19th century and oil lamps. We may disagree with the process of making the electricity but we cannot stop buying it! So why doesn't greenpeace go out and start up a rival electric company that uses environmental 'friendly' means of production?

As with world-organizations (i.e. IMF, WTO) we again have protests that do absolutely no good. As an economist and as a friend of various 'activists' I know for a fact that they do not even understand the true nature of what they are protesting!!! They grab a 'cause', but instead of trying to understand it they just go out and protest! Do these activists truly think that in some dark corporate boardroom somewhere there are a bunch of middle aged men sitting around talking about how they can screw over the world? The organizations were set up by some of the brightest economists/politicians/finaciers of the 20th century. This is what they do and they do it well and yet all they face is opposition and protest. Again why doesn't greenpeace set up a rival 'world-organization' one that perhaps doesn't need government support, something akin to trade unions?

My ultimate point is: Greenpeace and other organizations have huge memberships and a vast amount of 'monetary' support, that could be used productively by challenging corporations and other organizations in the marketplace, rather than protesting them on the streets and in the forests. The problem with protests is that they are 'trendy' with the media and citizens for only so long. Then people get bored or another protest catches people's eyes and just like that it is over. Remember the protests in Seattle? Did the WTO change it's positions? We had elections in the US shortly after...were more politicians that held a 'negative' view of the WTO, elected?

I am all for cleaning up the environment. I do everything that I can. I am also realistic in how changes are going to happen!

As for the attacks on LoA and Grand Ranger: Those were blatent flames and I would advice Ziroc to temporarily ban both of you for your comments. It is one thing to attack a point of view, it is another to attack the person making those points!

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time

[Victor von Steiner]

Originally posted by Moridin: As for the attacks on LoA and Grand Ranger: Those were blatent flames and I would advice Ziroc to temporarily ban both of you for your comments. It is one thing to attack a point of view, it is another to attack the person making those points!

Kiwidoc was not flaming LoA. She was talking about his post not him directly. Also I did not see any attacks on Grand Ranger.

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Vampire Lord

[Donut]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: ...so I can't stay long! My eldest daughter is in Green Peace and they are doing a thing with Esso... I expect her to be arrested. She is terrbly exited by the whole thing - her first time as an activist! Though I guess sitting in a hot closed container is pretty boring if truth be told... Wish her luck, you guys - so long as you don't disapprove, of course!

An excellent protest which achieved what it set out to do. It has got people discussing the issue and made them more aware. Of course we already knew that Exxon was one of the companies which lobbied George W to reject the Kyoto treaty didn't we? Both BP and Shell have accepted that global warming is a serious problem, Exxon have openly stated that there is NO problem.

Of course there is still a case for doing nothing about the environment. Why should I give a toss that my grandchildren will choke, I'll be long dead by then and what have they ever done for me?

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Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win!
Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Victor von Steiner: Kiwidoc was not flaming LoA. She was talking about his post not him directly. Also I did not see any attacks on Grand Ranger.

Victor? I think it is this post of mine to GR that is the 'flame'.

Quote from Fljotsdale
Errmmmm... You call yourself a Ranger?! Ask Minsc and Boo!
Seriously: no disrespect, but you seem incredibly ill-informed. I should get a job at Esso, if I were you - they will love you!
and this:
There are one hell of a lot more people doing one hell of a lot more poluting than ever before in human history, Grand-Ranger. Your comment makes you look like an ostrich, lol!

I did not see them as such, actually. My post to LoA, on the other hand WAS a flame. I was very annoyed when I wrote it 'cos I saw his reaction as an insult to my daughter and I know how passionately she cares and how much research she does before getting into anything - she WILL NOT participate in ANYTHING without as much info as she can get. I had also been very worried about her safety for long hours... I aim to post an apology to LoA for being so unreasonable and I shall delete that post. I don't THINK I need do the same for Grand Ranger - but I will if he wants me to




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[Fljotsdale]

Lord of Alcohol!!

My apologies for any 'flame' content in my post to you yesterday. I have deleted the parts that thought you may find offensive. My only excuse for being so blatantly rude is that I feeling pretty stressed out due to worrying about my daughter all day. I usually insult people with at least a LITTLE humour!
Sorry!
We don't agree on this issue, but...
Friends?

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