What Gives?

Dundee Slaytern · 10-09-2002, 04:14 AM

I have completed IWD:HoW before, but I never got to use the high-level spells because I only played on Normal Difficulty. Fast forward to today, with HoF mode on, and my Fighter/Druid can conjure a Fire Elemental in Dragon's Eye.

MuWahHAHAHAHA, right? Wrong... the darn thing could not even hurt a Wraith Spider because his attacks were considered non-enchanted! Something is seriously wrong here! This is a summon from a level 6 Priest spell, and it cannot even strike as +1 enchanted?!?!

Even Skeleton Archers from the level 3 Priest spell, Animate Dead, fare better than the Fire Elemental as they sometimes spawn with Fire Arrows which strike as +1 enchanted.

Anyway... I can live with that, so far... but I need to know, do the summons from higher summoning spells like Monster Summoning III-VII have enchanted attacks? I ask this because if the summons from MS-VII still strike as unenchanted... I will be severely disappointed and dumbstruck.

Morgeruat · 10-09-2002, 07:34 AM

I'm not sure, the elemental damage at least should ahve gone through, I've only used the mage fire elementals, and had no problem hitting creatures only damaged by +1 or better weapons, furthermore (by PnP rules) any creature(NPC) with more than 4+1 hd SHOULD be able to hit creatures that can only be hit by +1 weapons so even an ogre should be able to hit them... (I did notice alot of enemies couldn't hurt my fire/earth/water elementals, as you need a +2 weapon to damage them)

Seraph · 10-09-2002, 01:42 PM

Monster Summoning 3 can spawin winter wolfs, which can hit just about anything.
I dont really know about anything above 3, as I usually use winter wolfs to solve any problems (magic users) that I have.

pritchke · 10-09-2002, 03:57 PM

Isn't the Wraith Spider that annoying spider in which you need magical weapons to hit so you forced into melee so it can severly poison you and kill you if you don't have an antidote handy. It makes sense that fire elementals can't hit that spider because elementals are natural forces of nature. Fire elemental are decent though as they have protection from fire and do some fire damage although there attacks are weak in comparison to earth and water but even they would not do anything to a wraith spider.

andrewas · 10-09-2002, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pritchke:
elementals are natural forces of nature.

Actualy Elementals are entites of pure elemental magic, summoned from the elemental planes. They may be associated with natural phenomena, but they are not natural. And they should definatley have enchanted weapons.

Lord Brass · 10-09-2002, 04:21 PM

Strange, as the summoned creature should have been able to hit a wraith spider. In fact, any creature of sufficient size/hit dice should be able to damage an opponent that requires an enchanted weapon to hit due to the size or ferocity of the attack. With shapechange it is different as you would expect and you wouldn't be allowed to hit spider. The difference is, is that it allows you to adopt the form, but not the attacks of that creature.

If you couldn't hit it, I'd suggest that it is programmer's oversight. An elemental creature is, as andrewas says, a being of pure energy and composed of the form native to its plane.

Does anyone know if this is true of mage-summoned elementals? I've tried to use them, but they seem a trifle...useless shall we say.

Dundee Slaytern · 10-09-2002, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Morgeruat:
I'm not sure, the elemental damage at least should ahve gone through, I've only used the mage fire elementals, and had no problem hitting creatures only damaged by +1 or better weapons, furthermore (by PnP rules) any creature(NPC) with more than 4+1 hd SHOULD be able to hit creatures that can only be hit by +1 weapons so even an ogre should be able to hit them... (I did notice alot of enemies couldn't hurt my fire/earth/water elementals, as you need a +2 weapon to damage them)

I forgot to mention that. The physical attack of the Fire Elemental is considered, "Weapon Ineffective" but the elemental damage is still applied.

Right... 2 tons of pure magma smashing on one spider and the spider does not feel a thing except a bit of heat

This is nuts though, as the elemental portion of the damage is near worthless when you consider I am battling on HoF mode which means monsters have mega-health. The only time I saw the Fire Elemental shine in Dragon's Eye was against the Trolls. Wraith Spiders, Cold Wights, Imbued Wights, etc... and other monsters that needed enchanted weapons to hit basically reduced the Fire Elemental into a poor punching bag.

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraph:
Monster Summoning 3 can spawin winter wolfs, which can hit just about anything.
I dont really know about anything above 3, as I usually use winter wolfs to solve any problems (magic users) that I have.

One teeny-weeny problem with Winter Wolves. They deal cold damage. I think I can say it with a straight face when I say more than half of the monsters are either Undead or immuned to cold especially since this is Icewind Dale and Heart of Winter.

Quote:

Isn't the Wraith Spider that annoying spider in which you need magical weapons to hit so you forced into melee so it can severly poison you and kill you if you don't have an antidote handy. It makes sense that fire elementals can't hit that spider because elementals are natural forces of nature. Fire elemental are decent though as they have protection from fire and do some fire damage although there attacks are weak in comparison to earth and water but even they would not do anything to a wraith spider.

Polar Bears cannot whack it too. Wraith Spiders do not poison you, they inflict disease upon you which lowers your STR but not reduce your life like the Undead's version of disease.

In conclusion, I have not tried the Mage's version of Fire Elementals yet, as that is only obtainable in Dorn's Deep. I pray it strikes with an enchanted fist. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Dundee Slaytern · 10-10-2002, 08:30 AM

Urm... so anybody knows for sure whether the higher level MS spells conjure summons with enchanted attacks?

10-09-2002, 07:34 AM	#2
Morgeruat Jack Burton Join Date: October 16, 2001 Location: PA Age: 43 Posts: 5,421	I'm not sure, the elemental damage at least should ahve gone through, I've only used the mage fire elementals, and had no problem hitting creatures only damaged by +1 or better weapons, furthermore (by PnP rules) any creature(NPC) with more than 4+1 hd SHOULD be able to hit creatures that can only be hit by +1 weapons so even an ogre should be able to hit them... (I did notice alot of enemies couldn't hurt my fire/earth/water elementals, as you need a +2 weapon to damage them) __________________ "Any attempt to cheat, especially with my wife, who is a dirty, dirty, tramp, and I am just gonna snap." Knibb High Principal - Billy Madison

10-09-2002, 04:21 PM	#6
Lord Brass Emerald Dragon Join Date: September 17, 2001 Location: Good ol\' Blighty Age: 52 Posts: 913	Strange, as the summoned creature should have been able to hit a wraith spider. In fact, any creature of sufficient size/hit dice should be able to damage an opponent that requires an enchanted weapon to hit due to the size or ferocity of the attack. With shapechange it is different as you would expect and you wouldn't be allowed to hit spider. The difference is, is that it allows you to adopt the form, but not the attacks of that creature. If you couldn't hit it, I'd suggest that it is programmer's oversight. An elemental creature is, as andrewas says, a being of pure energy and composed of the form native to its plane. Does anyone know if this is true of mage-summoned elementals? I've tried to use them, but they seem a trifle...useless shall we say. __________________ <b>I\'ve submitted to the Choc!</b>

10-09-2002, 04:14 AM	#1
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 41 Posts: 11,063	I have completed IWD:HoW before, but I never got to use the high-level spells because I only played on Normal Difficulty. Fast forward to today, with HoF mode on, and my Fighter/Druid can conjure a Fire Elemental in Dragon's Eye. MuWahHAHAHAHA, right? Wrong... the darn thing could not even hurt a Wraith Spider because his attacks were considered non-enchanted! Something is seriously wrong here! This is a summon from a level 6 Priest spell, and it cannot even strike as +1 enchanted?!?! Even Skeleton Archers from the level 3 Priest spell, Animate Dead, fare better than the Fire Elemental as they sometimes spawn with Fire Arrows which strike as +1 enchanted. Anyway... I can live with that, so far... but I need to know, do the summons from higher summoning spells like Monster Summoning III-VII have enchanted attacks? I ask this because if the summons from MS-VII still strike as unenchanted... I will be severely disappointed and dumbstruck.

10-09-2002, 01:42 PM	#3
Seraph Quintesson Join Date: September 12, 2001 Location: Ewing, NJ Age: 42 Posts: 1,079	Monster Summoning 3 can spawin winter wolfs, which can hit just about anything. I dont really know about anything above 3, as I usually use winter wolfs to solve any problems (magic users) that I have.

10-09-2002, 03:57 PM	#4
pritchke Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: September 5, 2001 Location: Calgary, AB Age: 49 Posts: 3,491	Isn't the Wraith Spider that annoying spider in which you need magical weapons to hit so you forced into melee so it can severly poison you and kill you if you don't have an antidote handy. It makes sense that fire elementals can't hit that spider because elementals are natural forces of nature. Fire elemental are decent though as they have protection from fire and do some fire damage although there attacks are weak in comparison to earth and water but even they would not do anything to a wraith spider.

10-10-2002, 08:30 AM	#8
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 41 Posts: 11,063	Urm... so anybody knows for sure whether the higher level MS spells conjure summons with enchanted attacks?

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