This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.

[Kakero]

Originally Posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar Why?

I don't think a girl who undergo a sex change will grow a fully functional [insert male organ] no?

[Firestormalpha]

Indeed, she'll never sire any children, if in fact she even desires to. Cosmetic surgeons can fashion something similar to the male genitals but she won't have a the real thing. Genetics are at the core of human physical development. She has the genes that make her female, and, as previously stated, there is no way currently to change that.

She can take on the appearance of a man, but she will not BE a man.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

So your argument is that genetics, and purely genetics, determine gender? Please note that these questions are to determine how to formulate my argument, and not to provoke.

[Firestormalpha]

In my personal opinion, yes. Genetics determine what your gender is. A sex change operation doesn't make someone into a different gender, it merely mutilates the body they have. As for those who are born inbetween the two they are the unfortunate victims of a genetic defect.

IMHO a person who is born male or female yet is convince they should have been born in a different body suffer from some kind of psychological abnormality.

As I've stated previously I've known many girls who if you talked to them, you might think they were a guy by their attitudes and manner of addressing things, but they have no confusion at all as to what gender they are or should be. I've known my share of men with a distinctly feminine personality, yet they would never consider attempting to change their gender.

The gender confuse are just that, confused. It's a psychological issue, not a physical one.

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally Posted by Firestormalpha Here's a fact for the little girl, it doesn't matter what kind of drugs they pump into her or what body parts they remove, or try to add; genetically and therefore factually she'll still be a female. Most other girls that relate to guys better than their own gender live perfectly normal lives in a totally unaltered unmutilated female body. They just happen to act more like the guys. What's the motivation to have a doctor carve you up for the sake of become an imitation of a male?

Transgendered people believe that they are the opposite gender to that indicated by their sex organs. Literally that they are 'women in men's bodies' or vice versa. It is not about 'relating better' to the opposite gender, they are the opposite gender (note that 'gender' is a psychological classification rather than 'sex' which is a physiological classification). They see gender reassignment surgery as correcting what they perceive to be this 'mistake' of biology. It allows them to live as the person that they believe they are rather than continuing to live as the 'wrong' gender. This is an extremely strong motivation. While you are technically correct that genetically they have not changed - surgery cannot change what chromosomes they have - in the ways that matter to them they have changed gender.

This case is difficult because on the one hand, it is definitely better to undergo hormone therapy and surgery as early as possible because it allows the person to look more like the opposite sex - which is very important psychologically, I worry that she is too young to make this choice. It is true though that all transgendered people that I have met and the ones that I have heard about through those I've met knew from a very early age that they were the 'wrong gender' - it wasn't a decision that they made but something they had known practically their whole lives. It's atypical too for people to have the surgery and then change their minds later - and I think there would be factors around acceptance and social isolation influencing people for whom this does happen. Her psychological wellbeing could be damaged either way as well - it's likely that she's already not accepted by other kids because she's different and because she doesn't know how to relate to them, so at least having the surgery she may feel like she fits in better. Living as a girl all through her teenage years when she believes she should be a boy could also be really damaging for her self-identity and ability to negotiate all the social milestones of adolescence. But of course kids are likely to be very unaccepting of a 'boy' that used to be a girl. Her father's reaction worries me too, although hopefully there's more to it than what is in the article - his concern doesn't seem to be about her wellbeing at all but his own feelings about transgenderism.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Thanks

[DrowArchmage]

Originally Posted by Firestormalpha Exactly what I was thinking, though perhaps the mental ward seems perhaps a bit extreme. But, I would wait on saying she can begin the hormone therapy until a psychological professional could say that it was indeed a warranted course of action. Here's a fact for the little girl, it doesn't matter what kind of drugs they pump into her or what body parts they remove, or try to add; genetically and therefore factually she'll still be a female. Most other girls that relate to guys better than their own gender live perfectly normal lives in a totally unaltered unmutilated female body. They just happen to act more like the guys. What's the motivation to have a doctor carve you up for the sake of become an imitation of a male?

And if that doesnt work, you could always send her to some Amish or something like that, their children are very well behaved.

[wellard]

Nice post Aelia

Some useful information that has tempered my initial reaction. I like that you have picked up on that there may be a bit more to the Father's story than the 'monster dad' impression portrayed from the use of a text message probably quoted out of context. The father is probably as confused and upset as anybody and I think the way he has been portrayed is sad.

[TheDutkanator]

Hmmmm.....
Sounds like she knows what she wants.... And before you say, "She's only 12, she can't possibly know what she wants." Take a second a listen to a child. Every single one of them knows EXACTLY what they want.

Let me just state that I do NOT endorse nor do I oppose this girl's choices, I only fight for freedom of choice and free will.

[DrowArchmage]

Arrrrg.
FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!



i love braveheart.