The American Constitution - Second Amendment....

[Azred]

Originally posted by Stormymystic: no they are not in the past, sorry to bring this up, but Native Americans are still treated with out respect by the goverment do you consider that they work for less than minimum wage everyday? Are there "jack-booted thugs" holding guns to their heads forcing them to work for less than minimum wage? if people would forget their history, then the same mistakes will be repeated, and even now the same mistakes are being repeated by the goverment perhaps you should go to a web site about Native Americans and see how they still have to live Which is why I strongly urge everyone to study history more closely, so that mistakes may be avoided in the future. Besides, I know several people of Native American descent--they live where they please and get along quite nicely. They should have the same rights as everyone else, regardless of race creed or nationality, is that not what this coountry is sypposed to be based on? [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] They do have the same rights as everyone else.... the problem is that "white" people capitalize off of other races Then I must be doing something wrong, because I could use some more capital in my pocket these days. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

This is the 21st century; there are no more "oppressed people" within the confines of the United States, with the possible exceptions of the elderly, veterans, and the homeless.

[Timber Loftis]

I'd like to point out the number of casinos on Native American lands that show us the Natives have learned to well-use the benefits of the law to run tax-free monstrosities that make money hand-over-fist and show us that anyone can learn to beat the white man at the capitalism gain.

I'd also like to point out that the Native American tribes that did outlast the near-genocide now have a lot of independence and control over their destinies, being sovereign states within America.

Aussie and the US have this weird native peoples sovereign-within-a-sovereign problem. Yes, it is horrible what the US did -- in the name of God and Greed. But, some instances of historical atrocities do not change the fact that the US has by and large shirked the colonial model of growth and control.

Which bring me to the Empire excursus. Once Yorick limited his definition to the US borders, I have no problem with the definition applied to the US. *shrugs* My problem was with the "globalization" and "control of other countries" connotations contained within the "Empire" label, and those are what I well refuted.

And Guantanamo Bay was mentioned. Guantanomo Bay is the black hole of Calcutta for US evil-doing, IMO. It is an Army Base and Secret Prison sitting on a despotic island. It is a foothold for when we finally get fed up with Castro and want to take the country over. It a place where several hundred prisoners have been kept without any civil or legal rights whatsoever, and while they are "enemies of the state" status they have not been accorded "prisoner of war" status, even though they were captured in a "war on terrorism." In short, if fascism or some other tyrannical sort of government is developing in the US, Guantanamo Bay is the incubator for it.

[ 06-02-2003, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Donut]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: My problem was with the "globalization" and "control of other countries" connotations contained within the "Empire" label, and those are what I well refuted.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: It is a foothold for when we finally get fed up with Castro and want to take the country over.

Is it just me or is there a slight contradiction here?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: Wasn't it the Spanish the first here anyway? Well not the first here, the first to colonize it I should say. Spanish arent considered white are they?

Ever been to Spain?

America has this strange preoccupation with race. I actually find it offensive that the government has "race" boxes on forms.

White (nonhispanic)
Black (nonhispanic)
Hispanic
etc etc

The Singaporeans had some also. They had ID cards with your race printed on it.
Chinese
Malay
Indian
Caucasian
Other

Spainish are European. "White". Most Mexicans are Mestizo. Of European/Indian descent. Many others from say Dominica or Brazil are Mullatto. Mullattos could have a white dad and a black mum, yet they'd be "coloured"

The whole thing sickens me. Judging people by how they look reeks of apartheid.

[Yorick]

Check this out:

An excerpt:

How did Mexico end up like this, despite twenty generations of intermarriage? Surprisingly little is written about Mexico and race. In the U.S., we aren't really aware of the wide racial range among Mexicans since almost all Mexican-Americans are mestizos. This is because the non-Spanish-speaking Indians of the Deep South have been so downtrodden that until recently they lacked the confidence to immigrate. (Mexican Indians who don't speak Spanish, however, have been showing up in California in recent years. Since they haven't assimilated into Hispanic culture in 480 years, perhaps Mr. Rodriguez will inform us when they can be expected to assimilate into American culture.) And Mexico's white elite finds life south of the border far too sweet to come north for anything other than advanced degrees, advanced medical care, and advanced shopping.

The CIA Factbook claims that Mexico's 100 million people are 9% white, 60% mestizo, 30% Indian, and 1% other. These are fairly arbitrary estimates. It could be that some of the whites and Indians are a little bit mixed, but not enough to show. Since Spaniards and Indians tend to share dark hair and dark eyes, and aren't all that far apart in skin color, without DNA tests it's hard tell whether or not people who look pure Spanish or Indian aren't really slightly mixed. For example, audiences can be forgiven for accepting Spanish movie star Antonio Banderas in roles where he plays a mestizo Mexican. (On the other hand, flamboyant, grandiloquent Spaniards and stoic, taciturn Indians tend to differ radically in personality.)

Nonetheless, the Mexican elite tends to look strikingly European.

[ 06-02-2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: My problem was with the "globalization" and "control of other countries" connotations contained within the "Empire" label, and those are what I well refuted.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: It is a foothold for when we finally get fed up with Castro and want to take the country over.

Is it just me or is there a slight contradiction here?

[/QUOTE]Yep. As with everything in life. To shun contradiction is to ignore the dialectic nature of your existence.

But, one was half tongue-in-cheek, whereas the others was only 1/4 or 1/8 nonserious.

[Night Stalker]

I agree with you there Yorick. "Clarification" on gubermintal forms has no real purpose. It's not as sinister as apartheid though. It's about marketing and demographics! [img]graemlins/1pissed.gif[/img] *grumble*

[Yorick]

How white are hispanics

"Racism in Latin America has always been more insidious than in the U.S.. While the U.S. traditionally defined anybody with visible evidence of African heritage as "black," the Latin method is to allow anybody with a hint of white blood to call themselves white."

[Timber Loftis]

Yorick, while the info is nice you've gone so far [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] that this might be appropriate for another thread.

You do realize that among "hispanics" or "latinos" (though they seem to prefer the term "latin" if any term is used to lump them in a group) there is generally intense prejudice and division among the groups. And, it is most often based on who is "darker" or "closer to white."

Personally, since my wife is Spanish-Cuban, my kids (if I am ever so lucky) will gladly be checking the "hispanic" box on school applications. No reason to pass up all those government and private loans and grants.

What about a Dominican who takes student loans and grant money geared both to Hispanics and African-Americans. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

[edit]: Whoooops, I didn't see this when I posted the above:

"Racism in Latin America has always been more insidious than in the U.S.. While the U.S. traditionally defined anybody with visible evidence of African heritage as "black," the Latin method is to allow anybody with a hint of white blood to call themselves white."

It does depend. My wife was teased as "ghost" in grade school. The prejudice runs every which way among "latins."

[ 06-02-2003, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Sir Taliesin]

You all need to close this topic and start another one, cause this thread has nothing to do with the topic that was posted.