The Eternal War: Human Nature

Originally posted by LordKathen: I would like to say that I am glad we can voice our opinions without fear of judgment on this forum, right?. The atheist topic is kinda touchy right now with all the crap going on in this world.

Naaa you always get judgement when expressing ideas, it is just that here, you are permitted to share your thoughts and then see what others think about those thoughts.

[Suzaku]

To MagiK: I don't have a sad life-outlook, I just think too much about our human race. I am not the happiest person on Earth, but I am definitely not suicidal, pessimistic, or radical. I simply see many actions of humans this way. I mean, seriously, how much have we changed since 0 AD? We still kill each other, fear each other, try to dominate each other, fear the challenge to our security, try to advance our technology, have little or no foresight, or hindsight for that matrer...what else need I say?

Ahahhaa cute BTA

[ 11-06-2002, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Suzaku ]

Originally posted by Suzaku: To MagiK: I don't have a sad life-outlook, I just think too much about our human race. I am not the happiest person on Earth, but I am definitely not suicidal, pessimistic, or radical. I simply see many actions of humans this way. I mean, seriously, how much have we changed since 0 AD? We still kill each other, fear each other, try to dominate each other, fear the challenge to our security, try to advance our technology, have little or no foresight, or hindsight for that matrer...what else need I say? Ahahhaa cute BTA

If you seriously think the human condition has not improved since 0AD or that we have notdone anything worth wile since then, I can't say much, except that I disagree. To me your outlook seems hopelessly depressing, and I am glad I am not seeing the same world you seem to.

I think a lot about humans, the world, the whole situation too. I just interpret things differently than you is all. I have two children who will grow up in a world that I believe will be even better than the world I grew up in, in some ways. The things I want to see changed for them are sociological in nature but I don't see the doom and gloom you do. I would never characterize humans as "raping" the environment, for many reasons but one is that I refuse to anthropomorphize inanimate matter. I hope you eventually find that the world is not the sad and dreary place you painted in your fist post.

[Thoran]

I think your post is right on about our base instincts... but IMO your conclusion is wrong. We are still ruled in large part by instincts that were written to help us survive in a world of Saber Tooth Tigers and Mammoths... but I see our intelligence as the only thing standing between us and the abyss. I see Peta and take heart (even though I think they're far too extreme), I see people chaining themselves to 2000 year old Redwoods in an effort to save a magnificent living entity and take heart (even though they too belong to wacko-dom). I see Greenpeace attacking fishing boats to try to save a whale and take heart (ditto... wacko [img]smile.gif[/img] ). I'm not trying to be flippant, I do believe these people have gone too far into the extreme, but for every one of these radicals there are many moderates who sympathize with their attitudes (like myself) if not their methods.

IMO- Our survival depends on our ability to inteligently override our instinct.

Stare too long into the abyss and you'll realize you're really staring out of it.

[Suzaku]

I will keep the first post as is to not have confusions further along the discussion about what I initially said.

That being said, congrats on being a father (no sarcasm), I presume you have a lot more to live for now. May I ask exactly what about me seems depressed? I haven't said that I should go blow up a few more buildings to let nature reclaim them, or that the human race will drive this entire planet to destruction. They may later due to the massive pollution being hucked onto the earth everyday, but that's not directly my point. And about the world being a dreary place, might I ask where you reside? (I can't see the profile from the reply window, so neway.) I know all industrialized countries have a phenominal amount of garbage thrown out even everyday, and eventually that will come back to haunt everyone. This is getting into an environmental discussion, but I suppose that is part of human problems as well. Let me tie it together by saying that we like to "cover up" all our probelms, pretend to not see them or recognize them, and hope nature will take care of those probelms.

[T/-/alali]

As Arnold Shwartineger said in Termintator 2 "It is human nature to kill itself off"
BTW nice avitar Magik

[Charean]

There are those who think that humanity is like a virus. It will spread and destroy everything in its path. There are days I agree with that, expecially if the Jerry Springer show is anything to go by.

Then there are days when I think of the POTENTIAL that humanity has, that sadly, it isn't even close to achieving.

I am not thrilled with humans as a race, so I take them one at a time and look for the good in their hearts.

I hate to say this, but most people do not live up to their potential. Not even me. Most also do not take responsibility for their lives that they created (that I do!). Am I a bit pessimistic? Perhaps. But also realistic.

Maybe that will change.

[/)eathKiller]

Then why do humans produce art? Where does this fall intot he scheme of things? Asthetics, where do those come from?

Ah to heck with it! Lets all build giant spacec colonies and live on them! I think nothing can be better than a home that is constantly moving away . . . [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Suzaku: I will keep the first post as is to not have confusions further along the discussion about what I initially said. That being said, congrats on being a father (no sarcasm), I presume you have a lot more to live for now. May I ask exactly what about me seems depressed? I haven't said that I should go blow up a few more buildings to let nature reclaim them, or that the human race will drive this entire planet to destruction. They may later due to the massive pollution being hucked onto the earth everyday, but that's not directly my point. And about the world being a dreary place, might I ask where you reside? (I can't see the profile from the reply window, so neway.) I know all industrialized countries have a phenominal amount of garbage thrown out even everyday, and eventually that will come back to haunt everyone. This is getting into an environmental discussion, but I suppose that is part of human problems as well. Let me tie it together by saying that we like to "cover up" all our probelms, pretend to not see them or recognize them, and hope nature will take care of those probelms.

I didn't mean it as a personal insult or a criticism. I just find the view (the way you expressed your thoughts) to really be negative and defeatist and sad.

I presently live in Maryland, however in my life time I have lived in the following places. Pennsylvania twice for a total of 14 years or so, West Virginia twice for a total of 3 years, Minnesota for a year, Florida for 3 years (Orlando and Pensacola (twice)) Sabana Seca Puerto Rico for 3 years, Adak Alaska twice for a total of 30 months, Anchorage Alaska for 6 months, Winter Harbor Maine for 3 years, San Diego California for 3 years and then here to Maryland for the last 8.5 years (years and months are rough approximations) While all this moving around took place I did tours that took me to parts of South america, the South East Asia regions, all over the pacific, a few trips into the Med and Indian Ocean and quick hops to a few places inthe Middle east.

So I feel comfortable stating that I have seen a fair percentage of the world.
The pollution issues are exagerated to generate public interest and cash donation, yes there are problems but they are being addressed, at least int he west, Asia has some serious issues to address yet and so does the former Soviet Union but there is no reason to think that the world is about to collapse from our polluting it. Every year better and cheaper ways of cleaningup the messes that do exist are developed.

I have seen Pennsylvania go from a coal sooted dirty disgusting place to being many times cleaner, the LA skyline is no where near as smoggy as it was in the 70's. I have seen the pristine Alaskan wilderness which is STILL there despite the wailing and yammeringof ecologists opposed to the Alaska Pipeline, I choose to see all sides of the aregument and not just the nay sayer and doom mongering sides.

As I said Im not attacking you, just commenting on how I precieve your view point. You can call mine wishful thinking and ignorance if you like, but I know what I see and I remember the past.

Hope this helps clear things up for you a bit.

Originally posted by Charean: There are those who think that humanity is like a virus. It will spread and destroy everything in its path. There are days I agree with that, expecially if the Jerry Springer show is anything to go by. Then there are days when I think of the POTENTIAL that humanity has, that sadly, it isn't even close to achieving. I am not thrilled with humans as a race, so I take them one at a time and look for the good in their hearts. I hate to say this, but most people do not live up to their potential. Not even me. Most also do not take responsibility for their lives that they created (that I do!). Am I a bit pessimistic? Perhaps. But also realistic. Maybe that will change.

Anyone who is worried about the "human virus" spreading unchecked. Check out this web site. You can find the population growths of any nation with a few clicks along with some other interesting tidbits about the countries.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

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