It's not really cheating if you do it right!

Sir Kenyth · 01-28-2002, 01:12 PM

I've been wondering if anyone else has tried this. I've been using shadowkeeper to modify the party a little differently than most. Just tweaking, mind you. Mostly things that should have been done when they were created. For one thing, we all know Minsc is really a Berserker, not a Ranger. They just didn't have a Beserker class in BG1, so they improvised. Why give up precious levels to put him in a class he doesn't really fit? I don't think his Wisdom is even high enough to BE a Ranger. He also has a specialization wasted on Mace? Why? I gave him the proficiencies I gave him in BG1. Primarily, I shifted attribute points from unimportant stats to stats where they would make a difference. I mean, one or two more CN points off of Aeries already low score won't hurt, but the same two points in wisdom or intelligence means better spells! Beginning spells are another point. What mage worth their salt doesn't know magic missile? It's nearly always the first one learned! Another thing I like to do is try some of the different classes by changing some group members to other classes that fit their personna. Jaheiras personality could fit the Avenger druid class if you so wished. Yoshimo could fit the swashbuckler type if you preferred. I think Minsc fits the berserk fighter type best. If you kept Imoen as a theif in BG1 you may wish to keep her one in BG2 also. This utility is great for making a party that fits your idea of what they should be! A little extra replayability so to say.

Azred · 01-28-2002, 02:30 PM

I agree with Sir Kenyth. I never envisioned Imoen as a mage/thief, so I used Shadowkeeper to set her hit points to 1, her xp and level to 0, and her class to Swashbuckler. When I started the saved game, she immediately "levelled" to level 1, got her initial abilities, then I set her xp to 1/2 of my party's average (since she'd been out of action for quite a while).

Yes, technically, Minsc's wisdom is too low. This is due to a common misperception. Contrary to many people's belief, you may be both "intelligent" (IQ of 150+) and/or "wise" (a combination of intuition and spiritual/emotional development) and still be insane. Believe me, I know. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I think Minsc would have made a good fighter who wanted to be--or thought he was--a ranger. That would have been really interesting....

Nifft the Nimble · 01-28-2002, 04:38 PM

I totally agree! I wish I knew how to code into the game these changes:

Jaheira: Fighter/Totemic Druid -- This one is a little cheesy, but at least she'll actually benefit from the power. Making her an Avenger would be a bit over the top -- her Con is too high!
Cernd: Avenger
Viconia: Priestess of Talos
Valygar: Archer (Longbow ++++, Katana +, Spear +)
Nalia: Swashbuckler/Mage, with proficiencies: Longsword ++, Single Weapon Style +, Shortbow + -- Reasoning: she's high-born, her training isn't going to be with low-class weapons like shortswords; and being a naive crusader for fairness and all, she's not going to even consider backstabbing.
Yoshimo: Take 80 pts out of Move Silently, give 60 to Set Traps and 20 to Open Locks.

Azred, I think it would be great to make Minsc a Berserker who thought he was a Ranger. He & Valygar could have some interesting interactions, and he & Jah or Cernd could have some interesting arguments, and Korgan could devote some time to setting him straight on the whole meaning of being a Berserker.

-- Nifft

Jerr Conner · 01-28-2002, 04:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
I've been wondering if anyone else has tried this. I've been using shadowkeeper to modify the party a little differently than most. Just tweaking, mind you. Mostly things that should have been done when they were created. For one thing, we all know Minsc is really a Berserker, not a Ranger. They just didn't have a Beserker class in BG1, so they improvised. Why give up precious levels to put him in a class he doesn't really fit? I don't think his Wisdom is even high enough to BE a Ranger. He also has a specialization wasted on Mace? Why? I gave him the proficiencies I gave him in BG1. Primarily, I shifted attribute points from unimportant stats to stats where they would make a difference. I mean, one or two more CN points off of Aeries already low score won't hurt, but the same two points in wisdom or intelligence means better spells! Beginning spells are another point. What mage worth their salt doesn't know magic missile? It's nearly always the first one learned! Another thing I like to do is try some of the different classes by changing some group members to other classes that fit their personna. Jaheiras personality could fit the Avenger druid class if you so wished. Yoshimo could fit the swashbuckler type if you preferred. I think Minsc fits the berserk fighter type best. If you kept Imoen as a theif in BG1 you may wish to keep her one in BG2 also. This utility is great for making a party that fits your idea of what they should be! A little extra replayability so to say.

I think Minsc fits in well with being a Ranger, because Rangers are dedicated to good and stuff and it's in his dialogue. Plus, notice that he doesn't want to fight animals at all when Trademeet is mentioned. Seems very Ranger-Like to me.

However, I agree with the rest.

Sir Kenyth · 01-29-2002, 09:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Jerr Conner:

I think Minsc fits in well with being a Ranger, because Rangers are dedicated to good and stuff and it's in his dialogue. Plus, notice that he doesn't want to fight animals at all when Trademeet is mentioned. Seems very Ranger-Like to me.

However, I agree with the rest.

He fits in well in BG2 because they wrote him to be one. In BG1 it seemed pretty obvious they wanted a berserker, but didn't have the class written. The fighter class profile didn't have the special ability button activated like the ranger profile. The easiest solution was to put a berserk button under the special abilities of a ranger profile. His being a ranger is actually a bit of a detriment. It slows down his level gain and due to his low wisdom, his spells are pretty weak. Of course, this is just speculation. It's possible they really meant him to be a ranger from the start.

eb · 01-29-2002, 10:04 AM

How can you arrange so a certain char gets more XP?

Keylow · 01-29-2002, 10:14 AM

I've always thought Minsc was more of a Barbarian, but I guess that's just me...

Jerr Conner · 01-29-2002, 11:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:

He fits in well in BG2 because they wrote him to be one. In BG1 it seemed pretty obvious they wanted a berserker, but didn't have the class written. The fighter class profile didn't have the special ability button activated like the ranger profile. The easiest solution was to put a berserk button under the special abilities of a ranger profile. His being a ranger is actually a bit of a detriment. It slows down his level gain and due to his low wisdom, his spells are pretty weak. Of course, this is just speculation. It's possible they really meant him to be a ranger from the start.

I'm mostly speculating as well. I haven't played BG1 yet.

Sir Kenyth · 01-29-2002, 11:29 AM

He even says at one point in all the games that he's a berserker warrior from Rashaman on his dajemma. Unfortunately, he's suffered a serious head injury along the way. He purchased Boo from a merchant who claimed it was a miniature giant space hamster. Which he beleives whole heartedly!

Azred · 01-29-2002, 01:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by eb:
How can you arrange so a certain char gets more XP?

Select the character for whom the xp gain is to apply, then use CLUAConsole:SetCurrentXP("number"); and the character's xp will be set to the number inside the quote marks.

01-28-2002, 01:12 PM	#1
Sir Kenyth Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: somewhere Age: 54 Posts: 1,785	I've been wondering if anyone else has tried this. I've been using shadowkeeper to modify the party a little differently than most. Just tweaking, mind you. Mostly things that should have been done when they were created. For one thing, we all know Minsc is really a Berserker, not a Ranger. They just didn't have a Beserker class in BG1, so they improvised. Why give up precious levels to put him in a class he doesn't really fit? I don't think his Wisdom is even high enough to BE a Ranger. He also has a specialization wasted on Mace? Why? I gave him the proficiencies I gave him in BG1. Primarily, I shifted attribute points from unimportant stats to stats where they would make a difference. I mean, one or two more CN points off of Aeries already low score won't hurt, but the same two points in wisdom or intelligence means better spells! Beginning spells are another point. What mage worth their salt doesn't know magic missile? It's nearly always the first one learned! Another thing I like to do is try some of the different classes by changing some group members to other classes that fit their personna. Jaheiras personality could fit the Avenger druid class if you so wished. Yoshimo could fit the swashbuckler type if you preferred. I think Minsc fits the berserk fighter type best. If you kept Imoen as a theif in BG1 you may wish to keep her one in BG2 also. This utility is great for making a party that fits your idea of what they should be! A little extra replayability so to say. __________________ Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss.

01-28-2002, 02:30 PM	#2
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 54 Posts: 4,037	I agree with Sir Kenyth. I never envisioned Imoen as a mage/thief, so I used Shadowkeeper to set her hit points to 1, her xp and level to 0, and her class to Swashbuckler. When I started the saved game, she immediately "levelled" to level 1, got her initial abilities, then I set her xp to 1/2 of my party's average (since she'd been out of action for quite a while). Yes, technically, Minsc's wisdom is too low. This is due to a common misperception. Contrary to many people's belief, you may be both "intelligent" (IQ of 150+) and/or "wise" (a combination of intuition and spiritual/emotional development) and still be insane. Believe me, I know. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I think Minsc would have made a good fighter who wanted to be--or thought he was--a ranger. That would have been really interesting.... __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

01-28-2002, 04:51 PM	#4
Jerr Conner Silver Dragon Join Date: January 24, 2002 Location: Mundania Age: 42 Posts: 1,634	quote: Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: I've been wondering if anyone else has tried this. I've been using shadowkeeper to modify the party a little differently than most. Just tweaking, mind you. Mostly things that should have been done when they were created. For one thing, we all know Minsc is really a Berserker, not a Ranger. They just didn't have a Beserker class in BG1, so they improvised. Why give up precious levels to put him in a class he doesn't really fit? I don't think his Wisdom is even high enough to BE a Ranger. He also has a specialization wasted on Mace? Why? I gave him the proficiencies I gave him in BG1. Primarily, I shifted attribute points from unimportant stats to stats where they would make a difference. I mean, one or two more CN points off of Aeries already low score won't hurt, but the same two points in wisdom or intelligence means better spells! Beginning spells are another point. What mage worth their salt doesn't know magic missile? It's nearly always the first one learned! Another thing I like to do is try some of the different classes by changing some group members to other classes that fit their personna. Jaheiras personality could fit the Avenger druid class if you so wished. Yoshimo could fit the swashbuckler type if you preferred. I think Minsc fits the berserk fighter type best. If you kept Imoen as a theif in BG1 you may wish to keep her one in BG2 also. This utility is great for making a party that fits your idea of what they should be! A little extra replayability so to say. I think Minsc fits in well with being a Ranger, because Rangers are dedicated to good and stuff and it's in his dialogue. Plus, notice that he doesn't want to fight animals at all when Trademeet is mentioned. Seems very Ranger-Like to me. However, I agree with the rest. __________________ <b>Founder of the NPC Defender Force</b>, <b>Affiliate of the Pro-Mazzy Society</b><br />\"I hate to admit it but you\'ve earned my respect.\"--Shar-Teel (Thanks for this Illumina Drathiran\'ar)<br /> [img]\"http://userpic.livejournal.com/14048184/35120\" alt=\" - \" />

01-29-2002, 09:55 AM	#5
Sir Kenyth Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: somewhere Age: 54 Posts: 1,785	quote: Originally posted by Jerr Conner: I think Minsc fits in well with being a Ranger, because Rangers are dedicated to good and stuff and it's in his dialogue. Plus, notice that he doesn't want to fight animals at all when Trademeet is mentioned. Seems very Ranger-Like to me. However, I agree with the rest. He fits in well in BG2 because they wrote him to be one. In BG1 it seemed pretty obvious they wanted a berserker, but didn't have the class written. The fighter class profile didn't have the special ability button activated like the ranger profile. The easiest solution was to put a berserk button under the special abilities of a ranger profile. His being a ranger is actually a bit of a detriment. It slows down his level gain and due to his low wisdom, his spells are pretty weak. Of course, this is just speculation. It's possible they really meant him to be a ranger from the start. __________________ Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss.

01-29-2002, 10:04 AM	#6
eb Manshoon Join Date: January 8, 2002 Location: Lidköping, Sweden Posts: 216	How can you arrange so a certain char gets more XP? __________________ Don´t mess with the powerful mage. <p>Good Luck & Have Fun /:tgestar2:eb:tgestar2:

01-28-2002, 04:38 PM	#3
Nifft the Nimble Avatar Join Date: October 4, 2001 Location: NYC Forever! Age: 49 Posts: 520	I totally agree! I wish I knew how to code into the game these changes: Jaheira: Fighter/Totemic Druid -- This one is a little cheesy, but at least she'll actually benefit from the power. Making her an Avenger would be a bit over the top -- her Con is too high! Cernd: Avenger Viconia: Priestess of Talos Valygar: Archer (Longbow ++++, Katana +, Spear +) Nalia: Swashbuckler/Mage, with proficiencies: Longsword ++, Single Weapon Style +, Shortbow + -- Reasoning: she's high-born, her training isn't going to be with low-class weapons like shortswords; and being a naive crusader for fairness and all, she's not going to even consider backstabbing. Yoshimo: Take 80 pts out of Move Silently, give 60 to Set Traps and 20 to Open Locks. Azred, I think it would be great to make Minsc a Berserker who thought he was a Ranger. He & Valygar could have some interesting interactions, and he & Jah or Cernd could have some interesting arguments, and Korgan could devote some time to setting him straight on the whole meaning of being a Berserker. -- Nifft

01-29-2002, 10:14 AM	#7
Keylow Manshoon Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 167	I've always thought Minsc was more of a Barbarian, but I guess that's just me... __________________

01-29-2002, 11:21 AM	#8
Jerr Conner Silver Dragon Join Date: January 24, 2002 Location: Mundania Age: 42 Posts: 1,634	quote: Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: He fits in well in BG2 because they wrote him to be one. In BG1 it seemed pretty obvious they wanted a berserker, but didn't have the class written. The fighter class profile didn't have the special ability button activated like the ranger profile. The easiest solution was to put a berserk button under the special abilities of a ranger profile. His being a ranger is actually a bit of a detriment. It slows down his level gain and due to his low wisdom, his spells are pretty weak. Of course, this is just speculation. It's possible they really meant him to be a ranger from the start. I'm mostly speculating as well. I haven't played BG1 yet. __________________ <b>Founder of the NPC Defender Force</b>, <b>Affiliate of the Pro-Mazzy Society</b><br />\"I hate to admit it but you\'ve earned my respect.\"--Shar-Teel (Thanks for this Illumina Drathiran\'ar)<br /> [img]\"http://userpic.livejournal.com/14048184/35120\" alt=\" - \" />

01-29-2002, 11:29 AM	#9
Sir Kenyth Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: somewhere Age: 54 Posts: 1,785	He even says at one point in all the games that he's a berserker warrior from Rashaman on his dajemma. Unfortunately, he's suffered a serious head injury along the way. He purchased Boo from a merchant who claimed it was a miniature giant space hamster. Which he beleives whole heartedly! __________________ Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss.

01-29-2002, 01:11 PM	#10
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 54 Posts: 4,037	quote: Originally posted by eb: How can you arrange so a certain char gets more XP? Select the character for whom the xp gain is to apply, then use CLUAConsole:SetCurrentXP("number"); and the character's xp will be set to the number inside the quote marks. __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

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