What advantages does R/C have over F/C? - Page 2

NobleNick · 01-10-2005, 08:29 PM

Marty4,

Yes, I am sure Dundee is correct. What I meant by "leveraging," is getting access to Druid spells from the Ranger class, but getting LOTS of SLOTS for them from the Cleric. And for HoF mode, I'll bet (though I don't know) that the MC R/C is the best way to go.

However, at ranger lvl 13 and without a shield, the R/C will have 3.5 ApR!

At Fighter lvl 13 and with a shield, the F/C will have 3.5 ApR.

However, this is not to say the F/C is clearly better; If you have another good tank, and can keep the R/C from being targeted, his shieldless 3.5 ApR plus racial enemy bonus could make him extremely lethal much of the time. Then there are the Druid spells and stealth... Still, I prefer a hard shell finish on as many of my guys as is practical, so choose the F/C (and the DC F/C at that) to get the high ApR, high damage, good THAC0, AND shield.

I have a DC R/C and a DC C/F in my current party in TotLM. I wish I had gone F[13]/C and C[12]/R.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

pritchke · 01-18-2005, 12:43 PM

Playing HoF with a 4 person party. Now facing the Luremaster. What is unique about this game is that this is my first time using a multi class Ranger/Cleric. I am a fan of Bards, Druids, and Cleric (both muti and dual Roles) but I believe that the Cleric/Ranger multi class could be the most powerful. Doesn't start off as the best but once you start getting those upper level druid spells 4, 5 the class really starts coming into its own. Besides the above mentioned benefits you get to mix cleric/druid spell combos.
I have always liked the sanctuary, circle of bones combo, but with a ranger/cleric you get to use a sanctuary/static charge combo as many static charges as you can handle. How powerful is this? Well your entire party can be immobilized with Otiluke's Resilient Sphere while the cleric wipes the entire floor of enemies with this combo.

Note, a dual class is not as good as a multi cleric/ranger in terms os spell power because you can not maximize your cleric, druid spells. You will either be lacking druid spell levels or maximum spell slots. The class makes a decent fighter but its power lies in its casting ability and what it can cast.

[ 01-18-2005, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

NobleNick · 01-19-2005, 12:57 PM

pritchke,

As a solo character I can not argue, having NO solo experience.

As a member of a full party doing IWD, HoW and TotLM, the DC R[12]/C would be quite powerful as a spellcaster, getting more spell SLOTS then the MC; and also get the extra stackable PP in each weapon (grants an extra 0.5 ApR) and extra HP. The DC C[12]/R would also be a good build, having a generous allocation of slots, extra stackable PP, but not as high HP; and able to progress more quickly than the MC in obtaining higher level Druid spells.

I went DC R[12?]/C (instead of R[]/C) to complement my DC C[]/F.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

pritchke · 01-19-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NobleNick:
pritchke,

As a solo character I can not argue, having NO solo experience.

As a member of a full party doing IWD, HoW and TotLM, the DC R[12]/C would be quite powerful as a spellcaster, getting more spell SLOTS then the MC; and also get the extra stackable PP in each weapon (grants an extra 0.5 ApR) and extra HP. The DC C[12]/R would also be a good build, having a generous allocation of slots, extra stackable PP, but not as high HP; and able to progress more quickly than the MC in obtaining higher level Druid spells.

I went DC R[12?]/C (instead of R[]/C) to complement my DC C[]/F.

Correct me if I am wrong NobelNick but I believe the highest level your level 12 DC ranger will give is level 3 druid spells and you will miss out on 4, 5, and 6 level druid spells. When the multi class gets to level 15 ranger he has another spell level and at level 22 he will go up another level in spells and the cleric side has soon maximized all spell slots anyway as he would be approaching god hood. Your ranger at level 12 will most likely not be able to cast static charge, mind you I am just following the table and it seemed to work for MC Ranger/Cleric. It may be worth it in HoF to dual at level 15 just to get the extra level druid spells.

[ 01-20-2005, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

NobleNick · 01-19-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pritchke:
Correct me if I am wrong... highest level your level 12 DC ranger will give is level 3 druid spells... When the multi class gets to level 15 ranger he has another spell level and at level 22 he will go up another level in spells and the cleric side has soon maximized all spell slots anyway as he would be approaching god hood. Your ranger at level 12 will most likely not be able to cast static charge... It may be worth it in HoF to dual at level 15 just to get the extra level druid spells.

pritchke,

You are correct as far as I can verify. (I did not do test builds for most classes past about CLVL 16.) The Ranger gets SLVL 3 at CLVL 12, and SLVL 4 at CLVL 15. I would not worry about builds much past CLVL 16, unless you are doing HoF mode.

Yes, if you want access to SLVL 4 Druid spells, you need to get to Ranger[15]. I don't see how this helps the case for MC. O.K., if your strategy is built around Static Charge, then DC R[15]/C is probably not the way to go in a normal game (no HoF). However, you could get to Druid SLVL 4 faster than a MC with a C[12]/R. Indeed, an MC C/R might not get to use SLVL 4 Druid spells until the end of the game, unless doing TotLM as well as IWD and HoW, and even then maybe doing some camping along the way.

If you are highly interested in the casting ability of your R/C, and are willing to give up a bit on the melee abilities and HP, and are not overly pining away for the day when your R/C will reach CLVL 15 (at that special camping spot near the end of TotLM); then I'd say MC is a great way to go: Because you get access to all your abilities all the time. Just need to know what you are trading off.

Pretty much all my chatter is about normal games that include the expansions; since doing just IWD does not give enough expo to build and then enjoy some of the builds I espouse, and I do not (yet) have experience in HoF mode.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[ 01-19-2005, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

Dundee Slaytern · 01-20-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NobleNick:
[QB]~~ and also get the extra stackable PP in each weapon (grants an extra 0.5 ApR) and extra HP. The DC C[12]/R would also be a good build, having a generous allocation of slots, extra stackable PP, but not as high HP; and able to progress more quickly than the MC in obtaining higher level Druid spells.

I'm a little confused here.

Both Cleric/Rangers and Ranger->Clerics can only specialise( 2 stars) in their weapon proficiencies, both have the 'dualwield' bonus and both gain the warrior ApR bonuses at level 7 and 13.

So what is this about extra stackable PP?

Azred · 01-20-2005, 11:24 PM

*ack* All the min/max makes my head spin. [img]graemlins/1dizzy.gif[/img]

Don't worry about who gets more attacks, etc. Get a fighter-type, give them specialization in long swords, then find the Ring of Reckless Action and the Long Sword of Action +4 and nickname them "Cuisinart". [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Getting back to the topic at hand.... The ranger/cleric should always out-gun the fighter/cleric because of the addition of the druid spells. Simple. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

NobleNick · 01-21-2005, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
I'm a little confused here.

Both Cleric/Rangers and Ranger->Clerics can only specialise( 2 stars) in their weapon proficiencies, both have the 'dualwield' bonus and both gain the warrior ApR bonuses at level 7 and 13.

So what is this about extra stackable PP?

Dundee,

Isn't an MC Fighter the only MC who can stack more than 1 PP high? And even the MC Fighter only gets to stack to 2.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

Marty4 · 01-21-2005, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NobleNick:

quote:
Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
I'm a little confused here.

Both Cleric/Rangers and Ranger->Clerics can only specialise( 2 stars) in their weapon proficiencies, both have the 'dualwield' bonus and both gain the warrior ApR bonuses at level 7 and 13.

So what is this about extra stackable PP?

Dundee,

Isn't an MC Fighter the only MC who can stack more than 1 PP high? And even the MC Fighter only gets to stack to 2.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
[/QUOTE]Nope, MC R/Cs get 2pp per weapon, too. I wouldn't use them if they didn't

Dundee Slaytern · 01-21-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NobleNick:
Dundee,
Isn't an MC Fighter the only MC who can stack more than 1 PP high? And even the MC Fighter only gets to stack to 2.
--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

All multiclassed warrior types get to specialise in their weapon proficiencies.

01-20-2005, 11:24 PM	#17
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 54 Posts: 4,037	ack All the min/max makes my head spin. [img]graemlins/1dizzy.gif[/img] Don't worry about who gets more attacks, etc. Get a fighter-type, give them specialization in long swords, then find the Ring of Reckless Action and the Long Sword of Action +4 and nickname them "Cuisinart". [img]tongue.gif[/img] Getting back to the topic at hand.... The ranger/cleric should always out-gun the fighter/cleric because of the addition of the druid spells. Simple. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

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01-10-2005, 08:29 PM	#11
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	Marty4, Yes, I am sure Dundee is correct. What I meant by "leveraging," is getting access to Druid spells from the Ranger class, but getting LOTS of SLOTS for them from the Cleric. And for HoF mode, I'll bet (though I don't know) that the MC R/C is the best way to go. However, at ranger lvl 13 and without a shield, the R/C will have 3.5 ApR! At Fighter lvl 13 and with a shield, the F/C will have 3.5 ApR. However, this is not to say the F/C is clearly better; If you have another good tank, and can keep the R/C from being targeted, his shieldless 3.5 ApR plus racial enemy bonus could make him extremely lethal much of the time. Then there are the Druid spells and stealth... Still, I prefer a hard shell finish on as many of my guys as is practical, so choose the F/C (and the DC F/C at that) to get the high ApR, high damage, good THAC0, AND shield. I have a DC R/C and a DC C/F in my current party in TotLM. I wish I had gone F[13]/C and C[12]/R. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!

01-18-2005, 12:43 PM	#12
pritchke Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: September 5, 2001 Location: Calgary, AB Age: 49 Posts: 3,491	Playing HoF with a 4 person party. Now facing the Luremaster. What is unique about this game is that this is my first time using a multi class Ranger/Cleric. I am a fan of Bards, Druids, and Cleric (both muti and dual Roles) but I believe that the Cleric/Ranger multi class could be the most powerful. Doesn't start off as the best but once you start getting those upper level druid spells 4, 5 the class really starts coming into its own. Besides the above mentioned benefits you get to mix cleric/druid spell combos. I have always liked the sanctuary, circle of bones combo, but with a ranger/cleric you get to use a sanctuary/static charge combo as many static charges as you can handle. How powerful is this? Well your entire party can be immobilized with Otiluke's Resilient Sphere while the cleric wipes the entire floor of enemies with this combo. Note, a dual class is not as good as a multi cleric/ranger in terms os spell power because you can not maximize your cleric, druid spells. You will either be lacking druid spell levels or maximum spell slots. The class makes a decent fighter but its power lies in its casting ability and what it can cast. [ 01-18-2005, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

01-19-2005, 12:57 PM	#13
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	pritchke, As a solo character I can not argue, having NO solo experience. As a member of a full party doing IWD, HoW and TotLM, the DC R[12]/C would be quite powerful as a spellcaster, getting more spell SLOTS then the MC; and also get the extra stackable PP in each weapon (grants an extra 0.5 ApR) and extra HP. The DC C[12]/R would also be a good build, having a generous allocation of slots, extra stackable PP, but not as high HP; and able to progress more quickly than the MC in obtaining higher level Druid spells. I went DC R[12?]/C (instead of R[]/C) to complement my DC C[]/F. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!

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