Believe in Life after Death?

[caleb]

Yorick how can you have no doubt in your mind he was god when in every account he says he is the son of god or a son of god. I know there is a ton of innaccuracy but at least one of them has to be right and none of them say jesus is god or show him saying he was god. I wasnt gonna say anything but its been nagging at the back of my brain all day.

------------------
Welcome to hell.

[Yorick]

Caleb, he made it pretty clear. I'm not sure exactly what Fjlotsdale was referring to, but for a start, "I and the father are one" seems pretty obvious. He never said anyone else and the father were one so I don't think he meant he was a son of God.

Also his closest friends/followers all died professing he was God. Familiarity breeds contempt. Anyones friend would be quick to point out that someones sh-- did indeed stink if they went around proclaiming they were God. Certainly mine would, as the closest to you see all your flaws. These guys lived with him for three years, and after his death died for their proclaimations that he was God.

As I mentioned above his "Godness" was the whole point his reason for existance.

Fjlotsdale, the reason J.W.s aren't considered Christian is because to my knowledge they don't acknowledge the Trinity, and the Bible they read is slightly different.

Lord Shield, the Bible intended as a novel? It would be a pretty bizarre novel. It is as I stated a collection of books written over hundreds of years. Some are poetry, some are philosophy, some historical accounts, some are theological guidance, and some letters of encouragement.

Lady Avalon, of course the Bible was written by humans, do you think we believe it came down from the sky already written? It is considered the "Inspired word of God" and is certainly not the limit of Gods "communication" to believers. For one thing there are many books written since which could be accorded a similar definition, the difference being these writers did not know Y'shua personally while he was on earth (or second hand as in Pauls case).

Caleb, the other reason is that I continually feel his presence. Call me a nutter if you wish, but I'm a very cynical, sceptical and critical person when it comes to the metaphysical. I do however feel the presence of the Spirit, of Jesus. I communicate in short prayer constantly as one would a mate who hangs around. So much of who I am is because of Jesus love. Denying his existance would make my own a hollow mockery.

------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 05-15-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Sazerac: The only problem I would ever have is for someone to profess one's faith, and then for someone to come along, say that the person's "wrong" (the height of arrogance, IMO), and then try forcibly to "convince" the person of the wrongness of their ways and the rightness of his or her own ways. That is what proselytizing is, and it is the one thing that I will stand up against...in any form.

Where do you draw the line between healthy discussion in the search for truth, and what you're against.



------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by Yorick: Where do you draw the line between healthy discussion in the search for truth, and what you're against.

I for one think that discussion implies respect of each other's beliefs, though proselytism does not.

There is no 'one true way'.



------------------


The world is my oyster !
And now I have the knives to open it ...

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Moiraine: There is no 'one true way'.

Well I'd say there ultimately is, just that we can't absolutely know for certain. Hence the word "faith".

Absolute truth exists at some point, discovering it is not necessarily possible.

Some religions/beliefs profess absolute oppostites and so can't both be right.



------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by Yorick: Well I'd say there ultimately is, just that we can't absolutely know for certain. Hence the word "faith". Absolute truth exists at some point, discovering it is not necessarily possible. Some religions/beliefs profess absolute oppostites and so can't both be right.

How would you know ? Maybe there is only one God with many facets, maybe humanity holds so widely different people that they cannot (and are not intended to) see the same aspect of God.


------------------


The world is my oyster !
And now I have the knives to open it ...

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Moiraine: How would you know ? Maybe there is only one God with many facets, maybe humanity holds so widely different people that they cannot (and are not intended to) see the same aspect of God.

Because the above is an assertion of a belief, and I could assert that the opposite is true. Both cannot be right.

Either the universe had a creative mind behind it, it came into being accidentally, or it has always been, or has never existed.

Each of these scenarios cancel out the other. They cannot all be right.

Ultimate truth exists even if we are ignorant of it.

If a tree falls in a forest, but no-one sees it, does it happen?




------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Moiraine: How would you know ? Maybe there is only one God with many facets, maybe humanity holds so widely different people that they cannot (and are not intended to) see the same aspect of God.

An opposite assertion for example:

There definitely are multiple destroyers with a singular facet. Humanity definitely doesn't hold narrowly similar dead persons, that they can (and are intended not to) be blind to different aspects of a destroyer.



------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!



[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 05-15-2001).]

[Mouse]

Wow - profound thread .

Just for the record, and despite the best efforts of my parents, I remain firmly in the agnostic/sceptic camp. I would never belittle those for whom faith in a spiritual belief is a comfort and inspiration. Any faith which preaches tolerance/acceptance of diversity etc is fine in my book. I just find it so profoundly saddening that history is littered with Holy Wars, Jihaads, pogroms etc. where the object has been to persecute those of other faiths or beliefs.

My personal credo is "Life is not a dress rehearsal".

I have my own moral compass and as long as I do no intentional harm to others and try in my limited way to make the lives of my friends acquaintances etc. a reasonably pleasant experience, then I will be content.

Finally, if you want an example of a fictious work which explores the idiocy of an extreme religious tenet then I suggest you check out "Confessions of a Justified Sinner" by the little known Scots author James Hogg.

Phew - I hate these posts where I've got to think.....back to inanity for me now



------------------
Regards



Mouse

[caleb]

Originally posted by Yorick: Because the above is an assertion of a belief, and I could assert that the opposite is true. Both cannot be right. Either the universe had a creative mind behind it, it came into being accidentally, or it has always been, or has never existed. Each of these scenarios cancel out the other. They cannot all be right. Ultimate truth exists even if we are ignorant of it. If a tree falls in a forest, but no-one sees it, does it happen?

YES THE F***ING TREE FALLS AND MAKES A SOUND TOO!! I HATE THAT QUESTION ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

------------------
Welcome to hell.