The "China" Crises

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Moridin: Uh Oh a religious topic! Will try to contian myself....nooooo....I am being pulled in.....it can't happen......HELP! I too am an atheist, but perhaps a different 'definition' than Moiraine . Yorick-- You mention all of the good that christianity has done for people. I do not disagree with you, but I have to say that christianity has also done quite a bit of harm to people as well! How many 'heretics' died in the names of christianity? Why are gays/lesbians hated so much? Why are there no women clergy? This may be more of a rant against organized religion, but the whole idea to me is a bit proposterous! Personally I like to rely on my own beliefs and power to change my life and those around me, rather than the teachings of a man that lived 2000 years ago. I don't intend to offend and am not bashing christianity or those who follow it, just giving my opinion

Moridin, people commit those crimes not Jesus. When power is at stake humans will use whatever weapon available. Do you really think the inquisition was so faith based? Someone comes down and preaches about love, forgiveness, understanding, brotherhood, and it's followers torture other followers?

Jesus said to his followers "you shall know them by their fruit" when referring to other beievers, and that "false prophets" (people who distort his teachings perhaps?) would appear after him, and that "not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven."

The purpetrators of the Spanish inquisition, of wars of religion in England and France, of the Ku Klux Klan murders are hardly bearing "good fruit". If I call myself a socialist and espouse capitalism in my words does that make me a socialist? If I claim to love you and then beat the s--- out of you, does that make me a loving person? If I claim to be racially tolerant, and then discriminate, ignore and bash other races does that make me racially tolerant?
No it makes me a f------ liar, and that's exactly the type of person Jesus got filthy angry with. Hypocrites!

Please Moridin! Humans are human. Read some teachings and then see if the actions of 'followers' equates with the teachings.

There are plenty of women Clergy too. Not all churches refuse women the right to preach or minister, maybe just the ones you've seen. Even the ultra-conservative Anglican church in Sydney narrowly voted against. 49% for. It will be a matter of time.

There are christains I know who are against the actions of homosexuals, not the people themselves. I myself have in my life had the pleasure of knowing such inclined folk (and even been hit on ), and as a Christian am certainly not a 'gay hater'.

Regarding the teachings of someone 2000 years ago. If it's been around for 2000 years, and people are still into it - growing daily, isn't there something in it? A new teaching has a lot of kinks to iron. The words transcend time, speaking to the soul. Humans haven't changed much, we still visit the sam bull---- on each other we always have, we still love, hurt, cry, propogate, war, eat food, drink wine and complain that "it is meaningless, all meaningless" (Ecclesiastes).

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O.K..... what do I do now? Goo goo goo choo?


A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

A bit off topic i know but ehm
Did I spell Crises right?

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[Yorick]

Originally posted by Rikard: A bit off topic i know but ehm Did I spell Crises right?

No. Crisis is what you meant.


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O.K..... what do I do now? Goo goo goo choo?


A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[250]

Yorick, if a pair of new shoes caught dirt, is it still new?
if it is not, does that mean we should never walk with new shoes because we are afraid of catching dirt?

[Moridin]

The use of the word clergy was probably wrong. What I meant was why are there no female priests? Is this the teaching of the church that only men are qualified to teach the gospel?

Gays and Lesbians are shunned by the church. I live, shop, and socialize in the heart of the gay & lesbian area of the Twin Cities. Every single one of them (some good friends) have been shunned by their churches and just recently a gay/lesbian church opened in this area with a Gay Pastor! There is also the 'preachings' of people like Jerry Falwell, who tried to claim that one of the teletubbies was actually a gay icon! Give me a break!!!!

As for the 'heretics' being killed. They were killed in the name of christianity. Have you ever read the quote by a general in the army under Contantine. He had just conquered a town in present day Italy and he ordered all the 'heretics' killed. When asked by a soldier how they were to distinguish the 'heretics' from the christians, he replied by saying "kill them all for God will know his own". Joan of Arc ring a bell. A reverent follower of God and a great military strategist and leader. She was burned at the stake, b/c the church feared her and claimed her a 'heretic'. How about abortion doctors that are killed because they are doing their job? How about the fight in Northern Ireland, or in Isreal, or maybe you should look at Kosovo? I don't see too many atheists and agnostics running around killing each other, do you?

Organized religion is a sham. It is a way for a few people to control those beneath them. It plays to people's fears, flaws, and weaknesses. Mind you I am not bashing religion, just organized religion. Even though I am an atheist, I do admit that I follow some principles of bible and teachings of Jesus. I just don't let it consume my life. Enough said. I am leaving this debate now as it is 'unwinnable' and could turn nasty as these topics always do

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It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant,
than open it and remove all doubt!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by 250: Yorick, if a pair of new shoes caught dirt, is it still new? if it is not, does that mean we should never walk with new shoes because we are afraid of catching dirt?

Only in relation to an older pair. I'm not afraid of catching dirt with my new shoes, but what exactly are you getting at? I didn't quite get the analogy



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O.K..... what do I do now? Goo goo goo choo?


A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Moridin]

Thank you Yorick! Like always you are very eloquent and understanding in your words! I guess I just get sick of discussing it with imbeciles (brother-in-law is a devout catholic but has the brain capacity of a turnip ) I do not claim to know the bible inside and out and I do not claim to know christianity inside and out. I try to be diverse in my thoughts and beliefs and do feel humbled when I make a mistake in an argument. I appreciate your pointing out my 'mistaken ideas' nicely rather than bashing me as an uneducated twit



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It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant,
than open it and remove all doubt!

[250]

Originally posted by Yorick: Only in relation to an older pair. I'm not afraid of catching dirt with my new shoes, but what exactly are you getting at? I didn't quite get the analogy

I had a thinking about a person like you wiht such philosophy.
I consider myself, but in a more immature way. and you are probally good, in a mature way. but anyway, China is nto a place where people place "trust" in eachother, though I only know the surface of how corrupt a society can be. I do know that China is not a welcoming place for "good"
that is like saying, you are this pair of shoes. will christian's teaching help you go through that kind life should you ever live in that kind society? or would you "blend" into soceity and to survive the cruel struggle? I wonder which would win? the shoes? or the dirt?

[250]

Originally posted by Moridin: but has the brain capacity of a turnip

ahhhh... Uncle Spaky once tried to join the turnip business, that was when the first time Jett saw... ( )

Originally posted by Yorick: No. Crisis is what you meant.

Whoops




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