The "China" Crises

[250]

speechless

[250]

Originally posted by Grunt Master: Regarding Spy planes--the US plane was operating in International Waters. This is obvious from the fact that the Chinese pilots did not ward it off (or blow it up) with a warning shot. The Chinese pilots were "escorting" the US plane--they were trying to intimidate, annoy, and disrupt the US plane's mission (which is perfectly legal and expected). If they had been in Chinese waters they would not have been "escorting," they would have been "executing." (Does anyone remember the Cesna that flew too close to Cuba a few years back? That's what happens to unwanted aircraft.)

that is only more the reason piss people off, you know? just because you constantly hide behind "international convention" says this is international water, so you can do whatever you want. well, that is not the case.

international convention says those water are for PEACEFUL USE only. USA's spyplane was obviously obtaining informations for China's unfriendly nearby countries.

further more, the frequency of spy missions had been increasing. the VERY regular mission was threating chinese people's right, and doing chinese people harm. how could you do that? a country claimed to be the most fair, most respectful to people's right, people's liberty, had INTENTIONALY ignore its own code and doing other people harm? so shouldn't Chinese defend themselves? I say yes. not only they should, they deserve an apology as well.

when chinese most needed are economy friends and internation cooperation with US, very few people is trying to resurrect the half-dead Cold War theory, and put China on their next target.

remember, doing that is doing US harm int he long run as well

[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 04-10-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by 250: speechless

Thanks you Red Dragon you



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O.K..... what do I do now? Goo goo goo choo?


A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[250]

Originally posted by Yorick: Thanks you Red Dragon you

hey, no problem, you deserve it!

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by Yorick: This is all one reason I'm a Christian. Human nature has proven so destructive, and Jesus teaching is so much about loving your enemy and turning the other cheek, that I believe it's the only hope (if there is one) for world peace. The amazing thing is, his ideas were formulated without any education, without being born into privellege like say Buddha, and with limited travel, yet his teachings are so outside human nature and what he would have experienced. (steps off soapbox) You'd never guess I was an optimist would you? A pessimistic optimist. A cynical believer. Ah well. Thanks for the hi ho Moiraine.

You are welcome, Yorick !

Damn, being in an Internet Café is frustrating, I barely have time to read 1% of the posts - is it this frustrating for you since you are in walkabout, Yorick ? Receive all my sympathy ...

I agree with you, Yorick, about Jesus. I agree wholeheartedly that he was the most exceptional man, and that his teaching is maybe our only chance. And that is why I am an atheist. Because so many so-called 'Christian' people seem to have forgotten what being a Christian is about. Because it seems to me that, whatever the Christian Church, most high ranking people are there only because of the power it gives them. Oh there are a good many great Christians, all right. But they live in modesty, and because of the Churches officials, their voice is not heard. So until proven otherwise, I won't sign in, I will stay a free-lance.

Maybe the lack of education and travel and privilege have been a chance for Jesus - maybe otherwise he would have got corrupted or at least would have bent his ideas and sayings. I believe that wisdom is not at all the same thing as knowledge, and in some cases knowledge can restrain wisdom - yes, if knowledge makes you think that you have to get more pragmatic, to abandon ideas because you think that there is no chance that they can be implemented.

Just for the anecdote, atheists as my husband and I are, my son will go to a Christan college next year. Because the director of the public college is an asshole (sorry, but it is true) and the director of the Christian college is a broad-minded humanist.


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The world is my oyster !

[250]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Maybe the lack of education and travel and privilege have been a chance for Jesus - maybe otherwise he would have got corrupted or at least would have bent his ideas and sayings. I believe that wisdom is not at all the same thing as knowledge, and in some cases knowledge can restrain wisdom - yes, if knowledge makes you think that you have to get more pragmatic, to abandon ideas because you think that there is no chance that they can be implemented.

well, just a question, if a teaching/belief cannot stand up against the corruption, or should we call it "trial" then how can this teaching be convincing and applied?

sue me if you will (dare, ) I am no believer. I have been to church several times, and i ve seen faithful people pray and sing their praise to Jesus. While I was slightly affected by their ensuthiasm, I wasn't moved. Am I cold blooded or evil? err... i guess Jesus wouldn't say that.

anyway, i think, Christian to you guys are more like a way of life, or a personal code. I am not pretending i understand any of you, though. I am just saying, as an entity, do you realy believe Jesus? or do you rather follow the wisedom that showed in christianlity?

I am just curious

[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 04-10-2001).]

[250]

*cough* you gonna answer that?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by 250: well, just a question, if a teaching/belief cannot stand up against the corruption, or should we call it "trial" then how can this teaching be convincing and applied? sue me if you will (dare, ) I am no believer. I have been to church several times, and i ve seen faithful people pray and sing their praise to Jesus. While I was slightly affected by their ensuthiasm, I wasn't moved. Am I cold blooded or evil? err... i guess Jesus wouldn't say that. anyway, i think, Christian to you guys are more like a way of life, or a personal code. I am not pretending i understand any of you, though. I am just saying, as an entity, do you realy believe Jesus? or do you rather follow the wisedom that showed in christianlity? I am just curious [This message has been edited by 250 (edited 04-10-2001).]

Well, yeah, I have to say I believe what he said and that he is an entity. All he taught and said was hinged around him being God-become-man. He was either a nutcase or a liar or what he said he was, or people have massively distorted what he said. I gave a reply to Raistlin in an earlier thread regarding my thoughts on the historical accuracy, and he seemed far too logical for a nutter, and too caring and giving to be a liar.

Without going into my interconnected world view, it makes perfect sense to me.
I've also seen the difference he has made in peoples lives.

BTW I wouldn't say you are cold blooded or evil 250. I wouldn't start dancing to a song I wasn't into. So why should you get 'moved'.

Hey have you seen the Last temptation of Christ? A lot of Christians boycotted and protested it, but I thought it was one of the most incredible movies I've ever seen. No it wasn't portraying the Jesus I 'know', but it did serve to highlight that everything he did led up to the one end. Him dying for humanity. Blew me away the way it was done, even the 'Last temptation' of a wife and family, rather than death on a cross.

Boy are we going off topic


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O.K..... what do I do now? Goo goo goo choo?


A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[250]

Originally posted by Yorick: Well, yeah, I have to say I believe what he said and that he is an entity. All he taught and said was hinged around him being God-become-man. He was either a nutcase or a liar or what he said he was, or people have massively distorted what he said. I gave a reply to Raistlin in an earlier thread regarding my thoughts on the historical accuracy, and he seemed far too logical for a nutter, and too caring and giving to be a liar. Without going into my interconnected world view, it makes perfect sense to me. I've also seen the difference he has made in peoples lives. BTW I wouldn't say you are cold blooded or evil 250. I wouldn't start dancing to a song I wasn't into. So why should you get 'moved'. Hey have you seen the Last temptation of Christ? A lot of Christians boycotted and protested it, but I thought it was one of the most incredible movies I've ever seen. No it wasn't portraying the Jesus I 'know', but it did serve to highlight that everything he did led up to the one end. Him dying for humanity. Blew me away the way it was done, even the 'Last temptation' of a wife and family, rather than death on a cross. Boy are we going off topic

well, yeah, we are way off the road, but I think this topic came to an end, and that is everyone keeps his own opinion. let us wait for the situation evolve a bit more.

I really know very little about christian. While I know Jesus fought to save humanity, and one only needs to ask for forgiveness. I am just not convinced by that very idea. And from what you just mentioned, it seems there is more to it. What a way of life does Jesus portrait? "loving his enemies, and turning cheeks"?

also, here is a question, it may seem very extreme, but it is only a qeustion. what kind of view do you, as a christian, hold for a person that dislikes and hates the teaching of Jesus?

[SpunkyMoFo]

(OOC)

Not here to reply to 250's post as I can't speak to that. I wanted to suggest to Yorick that he read "The Last Temptation of Christ". I haven't seen the movie but the book was absolutely amazing. Judging by other book-to-movie conversions I can only imagine that this case is the same in that the book outlines the thoughts and feelings of the characters so much more than the movie.

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Cheers.

~Tipsy McSwagger
The Drunken Thief
http://suburbanjoe.org