3rd Edition rules a turn off?

[Azlan]

Personally I don't like 3rd Ed... I'm playing it because my gaming group is and that is about it. My first thought was GD&D (Gothic Dungeons and Dragons), I also HATE the butt-ugly art work and hideous minatures. Looking through the books I immediately saw (from my mnay years DM experience) the tremendous power gaming potentials. I fear this game now... a half-dragon lizardman can start with an AC better than full-plate (wearing nothing) and end up with a strength close to or equal to 30. Of course, this thing would be 1st class level, while everyone would be 7th. I saw a character wielding a great sword in one hand, because he was gripping monkeys or something. I've seen a Paladin in Mithral full plate with a nimbleness enchantment that gave him 2nd Ed dex bonuses back (you had dex bonuses in anything... never did like that). But the worst of all, I looked at my Fav PnP AD&D class the bard... its a f#$& nurse (healing spells?) with pointy swords, losy (but expanded and more extensive than in 2nd) thieving skills and no combat-offensive magic (it's a good thing I can be creative because there is no simple way to use the spells they have). I really did like having Wiz spells... I played bards as roguish mages (kinda like that apprentice that just didn't have the disciple -but had the raw talent in magic- to study all the time and the wanderlust to skip out before he learned all the stuffy arcane lores and animal pickling rituals). That aspect is now lost and the bard has.... JACK and SQUAT (Jack just left). It sucks the sweat off of... well you know. The only reason I play is to do some roleplaying, I hate the system.

$0.02 no change due.

Have a nice day and thank you for shopping.

[Mourn Yauntyyr]

Alright, I'm an old hand myself. I started playing D&D back when you got the game in boxes - red box for Basic (level 1-3), Blue for Advanced (level 4-6), Black for Expert (level 7-9). Then made the transition to 1st Ed, which I loved because it was more complex. I remember when Forgotten Realms replaced Greyhawk and 2nd ed and Unearthed Arcana replaced 1st ed - there was the same feeling of apprehension that many folks feel now with the rules shift of 3rd.

Granted, 3rd edition is *very* different than second. But I think it is for the best. The old game had some serious flaws as far as combat goes, and some other flaws (racial level limits, ahem) too. It's not a WOTC thing - its something that needed to be done - and couldn't be done without changing the game radically. I have nostagia withdrawals when I don't play 1st or 2nd edition but ya know what? - Soon enough you'll build memories with 3rd edition that will create nostagia - if you just play it!

A lot of the problems I saw mentioned above seem like DM problems. (I'm not trying to insult anyone's DM here.) The DM is there to ensure game balance, and if the game is unbalanced, he needs to fix it. Right now the game is new, and so I would naturally expect a DM to not have the level of mastery he should with a new ruleset to be able to tweak it. Rules can be tweaked, they are not set in stone - whether in 1st, 2nd or 3rd ed, or in NWN (which will allow DMs to script their rules).

So play the game. Don't get angry, and don't submit to nostaglia withdrawals. Play it like you'd play TMNT, Robotech, Twilight 2000, or Call of Cthulhu. In short, give it a real chance. Then make a decision.

Yeah, OK, so I wrote this after I'd had a few,
Mourn Yauntyyr
Elderboy, Qu'ellar Yauntyyr
The Undercity of Tzach Neveril

[ispq]

From a game designer/developer point of view 3rd edition D&D is a dream come true for the D&D line. 3rd edition as a game is immensely more self-consistent than previous editions, especially with the skill system. 3rd edition lends itself to being a computer game to a much greater extent than 2nd edition or 1st edition.

IMO the biggest benefit of 3rd edition is the wide range of customization it has laid open to folks who don't necessarily want to take the time to make their own game system or 30 page house rules documents.

[Milenya D'Aufleur]

I don't particularly like the 3rd Edition, due to a few reasons:
1. I've been playing since 1987
2. It seemed to me that it would take ten minutes or less to generate
a 2nd Edition character (not 30 minutes or more)
3. A lot of magical items seems to have been replaced by weaker standard type weapons and armor, miscellaneous items, or deleted all together.
4. No matter how hard I try, I haven't been able to find the bladesinger kit for the third edition, nor have I been able to find a conversion to 2nd edition's lythari elven subrace.
5. I have a Fighter 17/Wizard 17 (Bladesinger) and to have to convert that to 3rd edition really stinks. To have spent almost seven years getting him that powerful, and now i find out that you have to divide the next highest class by 3, and round down and then add to your highest class?: that means he has a total of 17+ 17/3= 5.2= 5 (17+5= 22) now that's robbery of almost twelve levels!
6. The game seems to have been made for younger children, (now that WOTC is now part of the Mattel company (hello, Barbie), why not keep it where it was. It was a lot easier to understand. THAC0 and the ability to hit was a lot easier to figure out, along with saving throws and the like.
7. I don't know, am I wrong about any of this?
If anyone finds a 3rd edition conversion of the bladesinger and/or of the lythari elf subrace, could you possibly send it to milenya24@hotmail.com ?
Thank-you for listening to my ramblings, and have a good evening.
Shorn Silvertears of Myth Drannor

[Durwyn]

The bottom line in my opnion is 3E is easier, a lot of fun, adds some neat stuff. I like it, it wont hurt NWN.

[TheCrimsomBlade]

to all of you winers and cryers out there if you don't like 3rd Editions rules then go get a pencil and paper and go back to playing
the way we did in the early 70's. I sure don't see anyone holding you
down and telling you that you can't play 1st or 2nd Edition rule games
anymore. I'll bet you little cryiers would complain if they Hung you with a new rope. if life is so tough then just through your computers into the nearest trash can burn down your house and go live in a tent.
WHIMPS WA WA WA WA

[Odec]

*Loves 3rd Ed*

*Hates UbiSoft + StormFront*

[Balgin]

What's so good about the third edition? They finaly sorted out the armour class and got rid of the hideous 2nd Ed abreviation (Thaco) that we all knew and hated (at least round here).
What so bad about the third edition? The awful "cyberpunk" artwork, the D20 system ("I know, let's make all skills, saving throws, attack rolls etc work the same way") the Unearthed Arcana style powergaming element (let's make all the numbers biger so we won't look little) that makes everyone take their first level in Rogue, WOTC's blatant sexism (always using female patronymicals or terms of adress, they dropped it a bit here but it still shows from their old Magic days), WOTC's total inability to understand the concept of a theme or way of doing anything (just look at MTG5 where they decided to put all of the old cards into one deck with desert sands and ice age weather spells in the same deck etc), a few other things were annoying but those were the worst.

I'll play NWN as a role playing game (even if a computer cannot assume a role) and ignore the facts that it'll use the d20 system. It should be fun if Bleak Easle (my current name for Black Isle due to their lack of funding and therefore lack of projects to work on) manage to produce it but they might have to sort out their legal row with the other company which shall remain unamed first.

[inferno]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Memnoch:
I actually like the way that WotC allowed people to have more flexibility with their characters - but the price of that flexibility and versatility is overall power. It makes sense since if you want to specialize you can anyway and the prestige classes are a great way to customize the game.

---

i fully agree whit Memnoch

[toriuxik]

THACO was a beautiful thing when you understood it at long last. I like the original AC too. One of the things I hate most, is the horrific fact: All the races are basicly the same. TINY, and I mean TINY TINY TINY differences (base races we're talkin' about here). Dwarves have a natural resistance to magic BECAUSE THEY DON'T THINK IT EXISTS! GEEZ! How the heck are they going to CAST MAGE SPELLS?! Other obvious things, like Paladins. They are from a human point of view. Elves do not have the same point of view, as they live a much longer time. They won't lay down their lives quick enough to be a successful paladin.

3rd eddition is this: DnD's politically correct and newb version. I'm insulted by it. Its simplistic. Its overpowered (Tarrasque for one. In AD&D, it sits around 300 hp, in 3rd edition, we have 840 hp. WTFH!?!!!?!?!!?!?!?!?! Oh, and I LOVE the cr for it... 20. LOL! It could stomp a Titan into gory goo without breaking a sweat, yet Titans get a 21). I honestly wonder wtf they were smoking...