Guantanamo Bay: It's 'art' baby!

Skunk · 10-13-2003, 05:52 AM

Eerie reality of X-Ray's cousin

The watchtower guard demanded to see my ID, and for a second I thought I'd been caught trespassing on a military installation.
When I asked him what he'd have done if I had no identification, he casually said: "I'd shoot you!".

This is a Manchester replica of America's controversial Camp X-Ray and his humour left me feeling ever so slightly nervous.

The camp - on wasteland in Hulme, surrounded by day-to-day urban living - is peopled with campaigners making a political point about the harsh conditions of the genuine camp in Cuba, but they are deadly serious about the act.

I had naively expected a guide to greet me and take me on a tour of the installation - the brainchild of city artist Jai Redman.

Instead, more like the reception you would get in Guantanamo Bay, there was no welcome - I was just met by a razor wire-topped perimeter surrounding the football pitch-sized camp.

Some people have even asked if the camp is actually a genuine prison.

"I think it's impressive and it is also very important," said 30-year-old Ricky Carrothers, who lives locally.

"It is a stark reminder to the public that there are British people held in the real camp, who don't have access to legal representation, or to even speak to their families."

Audrey Mayor, another local resident, said she found the camp "shocking".

"I think it is also brave and ambitious," she said.

"But you can't really know what it is like even for the volunteer prisoners here, let alone those held in Cuba."

Suddenly there was a flurry of activity at the entrance gate as a battered Land Rover arrived to deliver a new "prisoner".

We all watched in silence as the prisoner, forced to walk in a bowed state with their head covered, was led out of the van and into captivity.

Despite the seeming harshness, this new inmate was a volunteer like everyone in the camp, free to go whenever they liked.

And as soon as I spoke to one of the guards - El Cockcroft - any perceived hostility I might have felt from the camp evaporated.

Ms Cockcoft, 25, said she was hoping to take the part of a prisoner.

"I'm a guard because not so many people wanted to take the part of a guard," she said.

'Emergency exits'
"But I'm really interested in power structures and the effect they have - so here I want to experience both sides."

If I needed any further indication this was first and foremost a political art installation, Mr Redman said guards had no real power over inmates.

"There are emergency exits that prisoners can use whenever they like, and most will not be here for more than 24 hours," he said, despite staying behind the camp's fence.

"But since we were fully set up, no-one apart from prisoners and guards has been allowed into the camp."

He said reaction from the public had been unpredictable, but in some cases very uncomplimentary.

"We had one bus pull up, and the driver opened the doors and said it was not realistic enough and we should have a big wall for the prisoners where we should shoot them," he said.

Internees at the genuine camp in Cuba are not put against a wall and shot meaning mock executions would be unrealistic.

But the reality of the detainees' situation was lost on the driver.

But Mr Redman said political art often attracted "irrational" criticisms.

He said it was difficult to define exactly what he wanted to achieve with the installation, but other comments had been much more positive.

"I'm an artist and I want to make a point about what is going on in Cuba," he said.

"Whether it has any wider effect is difficult to say, but political campaigning is a slow process anyway."

johnny · 10-13-2003, 05:58 AM

I'm worried about the prisoner's status too, why haven't they been shot yet ? What's keeping them so long ?

Timber Loftis · 10-13-2003, 11:13 AM

Shortage of work for actors in Merry Ole' Manchester, heh?

Donut · 10-13-2003, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Shortage of work for actors in Merry Ole' Manchester, heh?

Watching too many Robin Hood films TL? There will never be a shortage of work for actors in Manchester as long as there is Coronation Street!

Sir Taliesin · 10-14-2003, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Shortage of work for actors in Merry Ole' Manchester, heh?

I figured it was ashortage of work for Carpenters and Fence Builders!

Skunk · 10-14-2003, 10:24 AM

No, they use work-experience kids for that.

"Let us show you life in the royal army engineers. Learn to erect prison camps and get a trade for life" or

"How about a career in the Manchester Regiment? You get to travel the world, occupy countries from NI to Iraq - and lock up their citizens. When you leave, you can easily get a job in any penal institution in any part of the world"

The GM Bay (Manchester) careers office and work experience camp is coming to a city near you - Don't miss it.
Opening hours: 24/7
Directions: Following the wailing parents queued up outside

johnny · 10-14-2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

originally posted by Skunk

and lock up their citizens.

Those "citizens" you mention were running around with Stinger missiles and Kalashnikovs. How would you treat a jolly bunch like that ?

Rokenn · 10-14-2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skunk:

'Emergency exits'
"But I'm really interested in power structures and the effect they have - so here I want to experience both sides."

If I needed any further indication this was first and foremost a political art installation, Mr Redman said guards had no real power over inmates.

"There are emergency exits that prisoners can use whenever they like, and most will not be here for more than 24 hours," he said, despite staying behind the camp's fence.

Hopefully they have people monitoring the 'cast', else they may see a repeat of the infamous Stanford Prison Experiment.

Skunk · 10-14-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johnny:

quote:
originally posted by Skunk

and lock up their citizens.

Those "citizens" you mention were running around with Stinger missiles and Kalashnikovs. How would you treat a jolly bunch like that ? [/QUOTE]You're surprised that soldiers carry weapons? Well how about treating them as POW's for a start?

In any event, not all were carrying weapons when they were detained. For example, the Ambassader to Pakistan was arrested (illegally - he had diplomatic status) while still in Pakistan (he had no weapons on him either), and then flown out directly to GM Bay where he remains today.

Chewbacca · 10-14-2003, 12:21 PM

What a way to make a statement.

I wonder if this art piece comes complete with alleged spies and the condemnation of the Red Cross like the real Gitmo?

10-13-2003, 05:58 AM	#2
johnny 40th Level Warrior Join Date: April 15, 2002 Location: Utrecht The Netherlands Age: 58 Posts: 16,981	I'm worried about the prisoner's status too, why haven't they been shot yet ? What's keeping them so long ? __________________

10-13-2003, 11:13 AM	#3
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	Shortage of work for actors in Merry Ole' Manchester, heh? __________________

10-14-2003, 12:21 PM	#10
Chewbacca Zartan Join Date: July 18, 2001 Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth Age: 50 Posts: 5,373	What a way to make a statement. I wonder if this art piece comes complete with alleged spies and the condemnation of the Red Cross like the real Gitmo? __________________ Support Local Music and Record Stores! Got Liberty?

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10-13-2003, 05:52 AM	#1
Skunk Banned User Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 62 Posts: 1,463	Eerie reality of X-Ray's cousin The watchtower guard demanded to see my ID, and for a second I thought I'd been caught trespassing on a military installation. When I asked him what he'd have done if I had no identification, he casually said: "I'd shoot you!". This is a Manchester replica of America's controversial Camp X-Ray and his humour left me feeling ever so slightly nervous. The camp - on wasteland in Hulme, surrounded by day-to-day urban living - is peopled with campaigners making a political point about the harsh conditions of the genuine camp in Cuba, but they are deadly serious about the act. I had naively expected a guide to greet me and take me on a tour of the installation - the brainchild of city artist Jai Redman. Instead, more like the reception you would get in Guantanamo Bay, there was no welcome - I was just met by a razor wire-topped perimeter surrounding the football pitch-sized camp. Some people have even asked if the camp is actually a genuine prison. "I think it's impressive and it is also very important," said 30-year-old Ricky Carrothers, who lives locally. "It is a stark reminder to the public that there are British people held in the real camp, who don't have access to legal representation, or to even speak to their families." Audrey Mayor, another local resident, said she found the camp "shocking". "I think it is also brave and ambitious," she said. "But you can't really know what it is like even for the volunteer prisoners here, let alone those held in Cuba." Suddenly there was a flurry of activity at the entrance gate as a battered Land Rover arrived to deliver a new "prisoner". We all watched in silence as the prisoner, forced to walk in a bowed state with their head covered, was led out of the van and into captivity. Despite the seeming harshness, this new inmate was a volunteer like everyone in the camp, free to go whenever they liked. And as soon as I spoke to one of the guards - El Cockcroft - any perceived hostility I might have felt from the camp evaporated. Ms Cockcoft, 25, said she was hoping to take the part of a prisoner. "I'm a guard because not so many people wanted to take the part of a guard," she said. 'Emergency exits' "But I'm really interested in power structures and the effect they have - so here I want to experience both sides." If I needed any further indication this was first and foremost a political art installation, Mr Redman said guards had no real power over inmates. "There are emergency exits that prisoners can use whenever they like, and most will not be here for more than 24 hours," he said, despite staying behind the camp's fence. "But since we were fully set up, no-one apart from prisoners and guards has been allowed into the camp." He said reaction from the public had been unpredictable, but in some cases very uncomplimentary. "We had one bus pull up, and the driver opened the doors and said it was not realistic enough and we should have a big wall for the prisoners where we should shoot them," he said. Internees at the genuine camp in Cuba are not put against a wall and shot meaning mock executions would be unrealistic. But the reality of the detainees' situation was lost on the driver. But Mr Redman said political art often attracted "irrational" criticisms. He said it was difficult to define exactly what he wanted to achieve with the installation, but other comments had been much more positive. "I'm an artist and I want to make a point about what is going on in Cuba," he said. "Whether it has any wider effect is difficult to say, but political campaigning is a slow process anyway."

10-14-2003, 10:24 AM	#6
Skunk Banned User Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 62 Posts: 1,463	No, they use work-experience kids for that. "Let us show you life in the royal army engineers. Learn to erect prison camps and get a trade for life" or "How about a career in the Manchester Regiment? You get to travel the world, occupy countries from NI to Iraq - and lock up their citizens. When you leave, you can easily get a job in any penal institution in any part of the world" The GM Bay (Manchester) careers office and work experience camp is coming to a city near you - Don't miss it. Opening hours: 24/7 Directions: Following the wailing parents queued up outside

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