Dutch goverment resigns

I did mean what I said, MagiK. It's just Donut's... er, humour, I suppose.

Originally posted by Spelca: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: You know...you criticize me for taking things to ridiculoous extremes...you seem pretty ready to do it your self though I will say one thing, if every person who committed a crime knew there was an high degree of likelyhood he would suffer extremes of pain and suffering and possibly or probably death..it would give them pause before comitting the criminal acts quite so lightly. I do like Singapores tradition of public caning...it appears to be EXTREMELY effective at preventing nuisance crimes.

There is not proof that the death penalty makes the crime rate go down (don't know how to express myself well here [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). It doesn't help, so I don't see why we should go down to their (murderers') level with executing people.[/QB][/QUOTE]Actually there is indirect evidence that crime decreases with the death penalty..with wide spread use there are fewer people to commit crimes consequently there can be fewer crimes. Seriously though, there isn''t any evidence that the death penalty doent't stop crimes either, because it is not implemented in a SERIOUS way anywhere in the USA, sure texas executes a very few people, but all in all it is a very rare bird who gets fried.

Originally posted by Grojlach: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Originally posted by Grojlach: [qb] Thats an artificial cost Grojlach, in actuality after the person is convicted in theory (if we could get a decent justice system) it should cost roughly 57 cents to execute a prisoner, based on current ammo costs. Any cost over and above that are artificial costs induced by our current justice system. I AM aware that not everyo9ne convicted is guilty, but thankfully with DNA and other new testing, we are rapidly becoming able to at least clear the innocent. There are many tens of thousands of cases where the criminal is quilty without a bdoubt, has even admitted it and yet they suck up millions and millions of dollars in resources. Murders, rapists, and the like have no benefit to society and should be dealt with like the trash they are. You named DNA research. I have a feeling that will cost way more than the 57 cts you just mentioned that are needed for operating the electrical chair...

You're mixing apple and oranges here...we were discussing the cost of execution vs life imprisonment, the trials and the discovery will be the same for both. Execution = 57cents Life in prison=millions of $$$. Come on Grojlach you know you messed up, admit it. Jeez doesn't anyone here ever admit they are wrong?? (Yes I do admit when Im proven wrong and some of you have even had PM's with that admission so )

Originally posted by johnny: i'm just glad the weak bunch is gone, but i'm afraid the newcomers won't do much better anyway, do you really wanna talk about politics ? most of the time it ends up pretty messy

Weak bunch?

Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by andrewas: [QB]In the UK we dont have the death penalty - and whats the result? Millions of pounds of taxpayers money (including mine) get spent keeping prisoners in prison - even when its not luxurious is expensive. QB]

Sure, lets kill every criminal in jail. I think the death penalty is more expensive then keeping someone imprissoned for a long time. Not to mention that only a small number of prisoners commited capital crimes such as murder. Or did you want to kill them all?[/QUOTE]You know...you criticize me for taking things to ridiculoous extremes...you seem pretty ready to do it your self though
[/QUOTE]Depends on what you call extreme. I think its just common sense that even criminals get treated as humans. Do you know how many inocents are executed each year?[/QUOTE]Nope and neither do you [img]smile.gif[/img] since by definition innocent people do not get put in jail. So all we know for sure is that SOME people who are innocent do get ptu in jail since the circumstancial evidence makes them look guilty. There is as far as I know no recent case of an innocent man being executed in this country. I woould also like to point out, that people who really do live a "normal" life and act like civilized people do not end up in situations where they get blamed for very heinous acts (if you dont want to be accused of being a drug dealer...don't act like one, don't hang with them, do not emulate them). It may happen once in a while but not often. Holywood is full of innocent men going to prison and being vindicated...that isn't the real world though. Do innocent people get falsely accused, you bet. We need to fix the trial and investigative portions of our justice system, so that we make sure the right people are being caught.

Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by Katherine: ... . . . [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] I think bunnies should take over the world. [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] . . . . [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] . . . . . . . [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] ................................. [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] !

I'll second that. Live would be a whole lot simpler.[/QUOTE]Did you know that bunnies in the REAL world have a pretty vicious nature? that males eat their young? and are totaly unfaithful to their spouses?

[Alexander]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Rikard_OHF: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Originally posted by Rikard_OHF: [qb] . If you talk about One persons We have an American Fugitive in the netherlands his asylum application got accepoted bcause in the US he's not sure of his life And the reason? He has different political views Nothing more nothing less he never did anything dangerous and sayd nothing worse then i have I think you have been misinformed on this, we do nOT arrest people for their opinions and to say this guy had to flee just because he disagreed with the government is definately not telling the whole story. I myself frequently criticize the government, I unlike Alexander realize the gun laws in this country are not LAX, it is the enforcement of those laws that is lax, and I frequently protest, complain and in other ways let my representative know what I think about the current policies, Ive never once feard being arrested just because I differed with the local, state or federal governments.

We could have an excellent system like in the UK, where there are approximately 10-20 firearm deaths each year.
Or, we could continue on our present path and have some insanely high number in the 5-6 digit range just to Charlton Heston can be happy.

Of course, UK forbids the use of firearms at all...

[Alexander]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by MILAMBER: Please don't confuse a lack of information with a lack of humanity.

Thats my point. 11 september got worldwide media coverage and international support. Those Muslims got a "Sorry, not our fault, go complain to the Serbs". And apparantly, the western media's hardly found it worth mentioning. And even if everyone had known, would it have changed anything? Far away from our doorstep, not our problems. Perhaps you feel sorry for the thousands of widows when you watch the journal, so you'll get yourself another drink and turn on a happy show. But when the west itselfs comes under attack, suddenly every effort must be made to get to the terrorists.[/QUOTE]That is not true, I heard nightly reports on public TV about Bosnia and Milosovic or however you spell it, I was sick to death of the updates every 15 minutes where they would tell you the SAME information. The media played it for all it was worth, uiuntill people quit watching, then they moved on to a different subject. There was no shortage of information available on the atrocities commited in bosnia....it is why we sent troops...who were supposed to be home what...3 or 4 years ago? The troops are STILL there.[/QUOTE]Of course, you're sick to death of the updates on what happened in Bosnia - but when Sept. 11th rolled around, that was a different story, of course....

[Grand-Ranger]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by Katherine: ... . . . [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] I think bunnies should take over the world. [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] . . . . [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] . . . . . . . [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] ................................. [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] !

I'll second that. Live would be a whole lot simpler.[/QUOTE]Did you know that bunnies in the REAL world have a pretty vicious nature? that males eat their young? and are totaly unfaithful to their spouses?[/QUOTE]Well, how many animals are faithful to there spouse? There are a few who have only 1 mate for an entire life time, Artic Foxes, Doves ( I think) a few others.

But I think most of dont really 'stay faithful' to there spouse.

[Alexander]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by andrewas: [QB]In the UK we dont have the death penalty - and whats the result? Millions of pounds of taxpayers money (including mine) get spent keeping prisoners in prison - even when its not luxurious is expensive. QB]

Sure, lets kill every criminal in jail. I think the death penalty is more expensive then keeping someone imprissoned for a long time. Not to mention that only a small number of prisoners commited capital crimes such as murder. Or did you want to kill them all?[/QUOTE]You know...you criticize me for taking things to ridiculoous extremes...you seem pretty ready to do it your self though

I will say one thing, if every person who committed a crime knew there was an high degree of likelyhood he would suffer extremes of pain and suffering and possibly or probably death..it would give them pause before comitting the criminal acts quite so lightly. I do like Singapores tradition of public caning...it appears to be EXTREMELY effective at preventing nuisance crimes.[/QUOTE]The justice system isn't perfect. Would you be prepared to be thrown in jail and killed for a crime you didn't commit, just so your silly system can prevail?

If you like Singapore's system so much, why don't you move there? I'm sure you'll retain the same conviction when someone mistakes you for a vandal and you are publicly caned.