Blair is spot on.

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: This is a point I've tried to make throughout many threads here. Don't just say, "this is wrong", provide a more peaceful, feasible alternative. Everyone's full of ideas, like stop the bombing and feed the Afghan's, but how does that achieve the goal? It doesn't. Destroying terrorists and the taliban, using international efforts to empower a civilized government, and then trying to feed the Afghan's and give them power over their own lives is a plan that can work. History has proven it can work on a grand scale. But just feeding the innocent isn't really a plan at all. If we lived in a world where feeding the innocent solved problems, this would be a much nicer world. I would be all for groceries instead of bombs, if someone could come explain how to make it work.

I hear this argument time and again and I simply don't follow the logic. YOU are the ones wanting to kill people. When we critise it becomes OUR preogative to find an alternative. You have to admit that that wouldn't hold up in a court of law... Surely it is your job as the person wanting to bomb another country to show that there are no alternatives. Instead of which you make it our job to find you one. It just seems a bit odd to me, you appear to have the best of both worlds argumentatively.

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Life is like a piece of cheese. Mice only enjoy it in cartoons and it is better with toast.

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: I hear this argument time and again and I simply don't follow the logic. YOU are the ones wanting to kill people. When we critise it becomes OUR preogative to find an alternative. You have to admit that that wouldn't hold up in a court of law... Surely it is your job as the person wanting to bomb another country to show that there are no alternatives. Instead of which you make it our job to find you one. It just seems a bit odd to me, you appear to have the best of both worlds argumentatively.

Not really. In a court of law you'd have to prove we were acting unreasonably, and the only way to do that would be to provide a reasonable alternative to prove the point.

In this case, war seems to be the only reasonable alternative. We don't want to kill anyone; we would prefer not to be in this situation at all. We were drawn into this through the intentional killing of innocents by terrorist. We have to protect our interests. The Taliban caused this war by harboring agents who acted with malace towards a sovereign nation. There is no way to conduct a peaceful war.

What I'm saying is that while some may not agree with the actions taken, no one has any reasonable peaceful way to resolve it. This terrorist action can't be allowed to stand. We can't just say, "Osama, don't do that again." We have to defend ourselves.



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"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

There WERE ways to resolve this peacefully. The USA goverment undertook this action knowing they would kill innocents, knowing they would create a humaniterian crisis of dire proportions,knowing it would increase an already fanatical hatered of them. For tony blair to support this fills me with the utmost comtempt for him and the labour party. We no longer need the conservative party it seems, as labour is behaving more like them every day that go's by. Tony blair is a weak charecter. He has appointed yes-men to the cabinet, like jack straw to ensure he gets his way. he has pulled to labour party the the right, trying to ride waves of popularism and makeing friends with the fat cats of buisness. He is in thrall to the daily mail brigade. he has weekly chats with rupert murdoch, very telling. And he is a hypocrite as well. The fact that the american goverment is resorting to carpet bombing just shows how desparate is it is, and how they have failed so far. More innocents will die in afghanistan just for bush an blair to ride the wave of popularity. Effectively by going on about all the people who died on september the 11th they are trying to say that the lives of westerners who died is more important than people in afghanistan, whereas all lives are equally valuble. He and bush are weak moral charecters, cynical,contemptable and hypocrtical and as many other pertinant forms of vehmanance as you can think of.

[Neb]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk:
There WERE ways to resolve this peacefully. The USA goverment undertook this action knowing they would kill innocents, knowing they would create a humaniterian crisis of dire proportions,knowing it would increase an already fanatical hatered of them.

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Well, Dramnek, could you give us an example of these peaceful ways to resolve the situation? What would YOU have done if you had to decide?

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk:
There WERE ways to resolve this peacefully. The USA goverment undertook this action knowing they would kill innocents, knowing they would create a humaniterian crisis of dire proportions,knowing it would increase an already fanatical hatered of them. For tony blair to support this fills me with the utmost comtempt for him and the labour party. We no longer need the conservative party it seems, as labour is behaving more like them every day that go's by. Tony blair is a weak charecter. He has appointed yes-men to the cabinet, like jack straw to ensure he gets his way. he has pulled to labour party the the right, trying to ride waves of popularism and makeing friends with the fat cats of buisness. He is in thrall to the daily mail brigade. he has weekly chats with rupert murdoch, very telling. And he is a hypocrite as well. The fact that the american goverment is resorting to carpet bombing just shows how desparate is it is, and how they have failed so far. More innocents will die in afghanistan just for bush an blair to ride the wave of popularity. Effectively by going on about all the people who died on september the 11th they are trying to say that the lives of westerners who died is more important than people in afghanistan, whereas all lives are equally valuble. He and bush are weak moral charecters, cynical,contemptable and hypocrtical and as many other pertinant forms of vehmanance as you can think of.

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You're such a bundle of beautiful positivity Dramnek. I wish I knew you in real life so you could inspire me with your peaceful, positive, and character buildingly enlightening rhetoric. I don't think I've ever read a post of yours that isn't constructive and helpful to my life.

Thankyou.

Have a nice day Dramnek.

[Prime2U]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yorick:

Yes I saw that contradiction as well. It doesn't make him a hypocrite, it just makes me a bad quoter. He was talking about nothing justifying the attacks on the WTC.

I decided to leave it unedited though because I couldn't be bothered.


I like the guy. He's articulate, informed, way more egalitarian than the aristos, is unifying the coalition, and has the timerity to take a stand against terrorism despite receiving flak from at home and Syria.


Gutsy and ballsy. History will remember him. Churchill during peacetime and Gorbachev after glasnost, were not terribly popular at home either if I'm not wrong.


What I don't get is the English protestors I saw while I stopped in London earlier today... (if you can call that wierd timeframe today. The last 30 hours of transit felt like one long day).


They were protesting the war.


Why don't they buy a ticket to Kabul and protest there? It takes two sides to have a war, but only one to strike first.


Who is giving the Taliban and Bin Laden the finger for being aggressive?

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it's interesting that Blair has higher approval ratings in the states than any president since Reagan heh. We like him a lot. He makes a lot of sense and good points. The Guardian (UK paper) had a great article about the current situation and his stance a few days ago.

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Prime2U:



it's interesting that Blair has higher approval ratings in the states than any president since Reagan heh. We like him a lot. He makes a lot of sense and good points. The Guardian (UK paper) had a great article about the current situation and his stance a few days ago.

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That is interesting. Like Gorbachev. Gorbachev was a hero to the west, and a pariah in Russia.

I'm glad Gorbachev existed, and I'm glad Blair exists. He may not be great for Britain but he's great for the world.

It isn't island syndrome at play I wonder? [img]tongue.gif[/img] British looking at his effect on their nation and not the larger picture?

Oh I love ribbing the British. It's an Aussie tradition eh Donut?

Oh, I noticed two of your boys pulled out of the India tour.

[Neb]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yorick:


That is interesting. Like Gorbachev. Gorbachev was a hero to the west, and a pariah in Russia.

I'm glad Gorbachev existed, and I'm glad Blair exists. He may not be great for Britain but he's great for the world.

It isn't island syndrome at play I wonder? [img]tongue.gif[/img] British looking at his effect on their nation and not the larger picture?

Oh I love ribbing the British. It's an Aussie tradition eh Donut?

Oh, I noticed two of your boys pulled out of the India tour.

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Please enlighten a dane who has never been told anything about Gorbachev, who was he? What did he do? And when? I've heard the name before so I was just wondering.

[Prime2U]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yorick:



You're such a bundle of beautiful positivity Dramnek. I wish I knew you in real life so you could inspire me with your peaceful, positive, and character buildingly enlightening rhetoric. I don't think I've ever read a post of yours that isn't constructive and helpful to my life.


Thankyou.


Have a nice day Dramnek.

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LOL. couldn't agree with you more my friend. I've also been inspired in my evolutionary views, quite amazing actually.

[Yorick]

Neb, Mikhael Gorbachev was the last leader of the Soviet Union, who ushered in - via 'Glasnost' or 'openness' - democracy, capitalism, and an end to the communist dictatorship and cold war.

He also pulled troops out of Afgahnistan and ended the decade long war there.