Amazing Pictures

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Moni: ??????? No you did not HAVE to...you CHOSE to, the same as I chose to defend this country against twisted perceptions such as yours regarding what we "patriotic American citizens" are all about. I am sorry we reached this point in what has been a relatively OK friendship, in spite of the fact that we have to walk on egg-shells around one another here but I'll have no more of being personally addressed in anyone's posts and being subjected to such petty remarks shrouded in self pity and feigned concern for an attitude that doesn't exist! Show a little respect for our country if you have any and if you don't, stop lying by claiming that you care because you've reached a point of blind hate when you'll say the things you did and then expect me or anyone else to take it all so lightly because you can cover it up with your own grief and "concern". If you had any honest concern to begin with you never would taken those cheap shots knowing you could be offending anyone and you know it. G'night

I took no cheap shots and I do not hate America. Or Americans. Ever since I met my first American when I was 19, I have had an affection for Americans. Please do not ascribe to me what I do not feel, nor construe sincerly felt statements as hypocritical.
You are unjust in your grief, but I understand, so please know that you have my heartfelt sympathy, even if you DO think it hypocritical.

And thank you for your support in subsequent posts in this thread. I found that very touching, considering your anger.

BTW - self-pitying is the LAST thing I can be accused of, lol! Tactless, though, probably.

Teresa

------------------






[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-15-2001).]

[Tobbin]

I would just like to say that I'm sorry to you Fjotsdale. Sorry that everything go so out of hand in this thread. I really do respect you. If I have said anything that offended you, please know that it wasn't meant in any fashion.

------------------


Protectorate of the OHF
Death Waits 4 U ALL

[Memnoch]

*sigh*

Just a post to ask everyone to cool down and be considerate towards your fellow forum members in expressing our opinions. I would've thought that the least we could do during this difficult emotional time is to repect the rights of other members to have their opinions, even if they conflict with your own, and to be considerate of their personal feelings.

I wanted to bring up a point that I made in another post (which not many people seem to have read, sadly - or they read it and did not try to understand it):

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

This is the cornerstone around which the concept of freedom of speech is built, as long as it is done with respect for others.

That part in italics is very important IMO, and is something that seems to have been sadly forgotten this past week.

Liliaria, let's be careful that in showing our patriotism for our country (and I speak as an expatriate American in Australia) that we do not run roughshod over others who also have a right to their opinion. We're all on the same side here. As Fljotsdale has mentioned above she has a lot of support and affection for Americans. She is entitled to her views, as you are to yours. Patriotism doesn't mean aggression towards those who disagree with us.

Finally, another point for both Moni and Fljotsdale, who for their own reasons feel very passionately about their beliefs:

"Don't take things personally. Life's too short to get upset about another person's point of view."

It's certainly not worth losing a friendship over it. I have lots of friends who don't share my views. It's this diversity within the human race that makes it so infinitely wonderful and incredible.

I hope this helps at a time when all our emotions are frayed. But life goes on. Never underestimate the power of the human spirit to overcome adversity.


------------------


[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 09-15-2001).]

[Fljotsdale]

Thanks for the reminder, Memnoch.

------------------

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Tobbin: I would just like to say that I'm sorry to you Fjotsdale. Sorry that everything go so out of hand in this thread. I really do respect you. If I have said anything that offended you, please know that it wasn't meant in any fashion.

No worries, Tobbin. I don't take offense easy, especially for sincerely felt opinions, even if I happen not to agree. You have no need to apologise, ok? You said nothing wrong at all.

------------------




[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-15-2001).]

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Memnoch: *sigh* Liliaria, let's be careful that in showing our patriotism for our country (and I speak as an expatriate American in Australia) that we do not run roughshod over others who also have a right to their opinion. We're all on the same side here. As Fljotsdale has mentioned above she has a lot of support and affection for Americans. She is entitled to her views, as you are to yours. Patriotism doesn't mean aggression towards those who disagree with us.

I believe that I was stating my opinion! I never named anyone and I was not flaming. My name however has been brought up quite a few times and I have been openly flamed. Where is MY justice?

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY MONI: The rest of us here have been trying to give her some understanding as to the difference between patriotism and jingoism and look what you do! I am shocked Liliara! I was also going to make a post on how my faith in humanity was restored tonight seeing the world-wide support that the U.S. had in a show of respect and united prayer today but you just blew that feeling all to hell Liliara. Thanks a f*ing lot. Its no wonder people hate us. People in other nations abhor behavior like Liliara just displayed...it has their view of us on a whole based on ignorant remarks such as both of her posts displayed. I really need to get some sleep...looks like Liliara bailed on the board. Sad.

I really don't get this board. For her remarks to me Moni didn't even recieve a slap on the wrist. I didn't see any mention of the flamage in your post to Moni, just concern over her friendship with F.

ORIGINALY POSTED BY MEMNOCH: Finally, another point for both Moni and Fljotsdale, who for their own reasons feel very passionately about their beliefs: "Don't take things personally. Life's too short to get upset about another person's point of view." It's certainly not worth losing a friendship over it. I have lots of friends who don't share my views. It's this diversity within the human race that makes it so infinitely wonderful and incredible. I hope this helps at a time when all our emotions are frayed. But life goes on. Never underestimate the power of the human spirit to overcome adversity.

As I said, I never pointed anyone out. I intended my post as a general opinion.

Tobbin, thank you for your support. It's sad that another member had to be the one to point out that I have a right to my own opinion as much as anyone else here.

If it weren't for a small group of people on this board, I would feel like a total outsider. Thank you to these people for remaining fair, even when we are disagreeing.

Hugs!



------------------

Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

If you had read this thread and took in what it had to say, you might have realized that your post was one that could potentially seriously hurt another member's feelings. It was my opinion, out of respect for Fljotsdale, that you crossed a line.

There is nothing wrong with you beiong patriotic but to take your patriotism to being jingoism is a bit scary, even for me!

You have my apologies for any offense I gave you for being upset about it but I do care about Fljotsdale's feelings and was trying not just to stand up for them but to open your eyes to what your posts were saying.

I got an e-mail from Memnoch defending your right to post your opinion so don't think you are the only one being reprimanded here.

I understand your right to have your opinion but we as a community, should be aware of, and respect our fellow members feelings and for you to make that post, at that time, seemed to me to be a smack in the face to Fljotsdale's feelings which, if you had read her reasoning behind them, are not unfounded.

If you want me to edit my posts to you and remove my posts directing anger at you, all you have to do is ask. But do it quick...I am leaving IW for a few weeks.

------------------


You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 09-15-2001).]

Sorry...you will have to ask a mod to edit them...I have to go

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Moni: If you want me to edit my posts to you and remove my posts directing anger at you, all you have to do is ask. But do it quick...I am leaving IW for a few weeks.

I don't want you to edit anything. I can handle criticism.

My problem comes when on the public board I am told to respect other's opinions when someone who is blatantly flaming me is not even reprimanded.

As for what was personally said to you in an e-mail, Memnoch has mine too. Maybe it would have been a bit more fair to have treated them equally, even though I never FLAMED anyone.



------------------

Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

[Liliara]

Just a bump for Memnoch.

------------------

Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)