Religion

[Madriver]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: I agree with your sentiment Absynthe, but not the details. Science is unafraid to completely re-invent itself if something new and unexpected is found. .

And relgious people aren't? Mate, if people didn't do that we'd all be Jews, Hindus and ancestor/nature worshippers.

How much do you know about what it is to have spiritual faith?[/QUOTE]You didn't read the last part of his post.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: I simply don't find enough scientific evidence to swallow an evolution theory that is always changing with new 'evidence'. If the evidence was there I'd believe it, yet still hold my theology to be true.

Here is some fresh evidence: Mice, men share 99 percent of genes[/QUOTE]That's not evidence for evolution! Sheesh. Is your brain the same thing as your stomach simply because it is made of the same flesh? Does it perform the same functions? Of course Mice and Humans have a similar genetic makeup. We're both alive, both warmblooded, give birth to live young. It's no big new truth. Oh, yes and we're also very different to mice. Must be decided by those 300 very necessary different genes.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: I was using the roundness of the earth as something else many people have not experienced directly.

A huge number of humans have been on an airplane. Much, much greater than the proportion involved in CarbDating experiments.[/QUOTE]So? What proof do you have that you have done this? I have not flown around the world, so I should just take on faith what you say about it being round? Flying from one point to the other does not prove the Earth is round. Unless you have actually been in a space capsule and circled the planet how can you state unequivocally that the earth round? Have you taken direct measurements of the curvature of the earth in your travels, then calculated the 'roundness' of the planets? But wait, to do that you have to 'take on faith' that the mathematical principals that you are using to calculate this are correct as well.

I know I am stretching this to the point of ridiculousness. But I am doing it on purpose. Your argument about carbon dating basically boils down to that if I can't prove it myself then it is suspect, or a matter of faith. Science is a self-correcting mechanism, if enough evidence piles up something is wrong then then world model is changed. It has changed in the past and I'm certain it will change again in the future.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: I agree with your sentiment Absynthe, but not the details. Science is unafraid to completely re-invent itself if something new and unexpected is found. .

And relgious people aren't? Mate, if people didn't do that we'd all be Jews, Hindus and ancestor/nature worshippers.

How much do you know about what it is to have spiritual faith?[/QUOTE]Nice way to miss the entire point of my post. I specificly addressed those points in the portion of the post you cut. You may want to take some time to cool off little Yorrick. I think you are getting a bit worked up.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: I simply don't find enough scientific evidence to swallow an evolution theory that is always changing with new 'evidence'. If the evidence was there I'd believe it, yet still hold my theology to be true.

Here is some fresh evidence: Mice, men share 99 percent of genes[/QUOTE]That's not evidence for evolution! Sheesh. Is your brain the same thing as your stomach simply because it is made of the same flesh? Does it perform the same functions? Of course Mice and Humans have a similar genetic makeup. We're both alive, both warmblooded, give birth to live young. It's no big new truth. Oh, yes and we're also very different to mice. Must be decided by those 300 very necessary different genes.[/QUOTE]other then the part were they summize that we had a common ancestor with mice 75-125 million years ago.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Madriver: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: I agree with your sentiment Absynthe, but not the details. Science is unafraid to completely re-invent itself if something new and unexpected is found. .

And relgious people aren't? Mate, if people didn't do that we'd all be Jews, Hindus and ancestor/nature worshippers.

How much do you know about what it is to have spiritual faith?[/QUOTE]You didn't read the last part of his post.[/QUOTE]That's irrelevent. I was asking how much he understands about having spiritual faith. See, I know what it is to love science. I enjoy discovery. Spiritual faith INCLUDES the processes used in science. Theology itself is a science. Science and spiritual faith are not preclusive.
Rokkens post, aside from ascribing human qualities to an abstract concept, (ie. Science is not afraid??) It seems to show a lack of understanding of people of faith. Simply citing historical instances of persecution is meaningless. Was Caesar killed for religious reasons or because he was going to 'buck the political system'. Politics, greed, fear. These things are what cause contention. Religious bodies can be filled by fearful, greedy politically minded folk just like any other body of people. Like a scientific institute.

When ideas about Time travel were put forward a few years ago, large numbers of German scientists said that and I quote: "Such thinking should not be allowed".

Should not be allowed? Thought control?

Science is knowledge. Knowledge is ammoral. Knowledge cannot be afraid, fearless, evil, conservative or radical. It is the people who possess it who can be any of those things, as any person can.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Rokenn: Your argument about carbon dating basically boils down to that if I can't prove it myself then it is suspect, or a matter of faith.

Precisely. You'll find you excercise faith in many aspects of your life. Faith in God is just one aspect for me.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: I simply don't find enough scientific evidence to swallow an evolution theory that is always changing with new 'evidence'. If the evidence was there I'd believe it, yet still hold my theology to be true.

Here is some fresh evidence: Mice, men share 99 percent of genes[/QUOTE]That's not evidence for evolution! Sheesh. Is your brain the same thing as your stomach simply because it is made of the same flesh? Does it perform the same functions? Of course Mice and Humans have a similar genetic makeup. We're both alive, both warmblooded, give birth to live young. It's no big new truth. Oh, yes and we're also very different to mice. Must be decided by those 300 very necessary different genes.[/QUOTE]other then the part were they summize that we had a common ancestor with mice 75-125 million years ago.[/QUOTE]Which is speculation. It's like suggesting Saddam and George Bush have the same parents simply because they both have two arms, two legs, hair and aggressive attitudes.

It doesn't prove anything other than mice and humans share similar (minus 300 differences) gene codes. That is what has been found and proven. Anything else is speculation.

[Madriver]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: Your argument about carbon dating basically boils down to that if I can't prove it myself then it is suspect, or a matter of faith.

Precisely. You'll find you excercise faith in many aspects of your life. Faith in God is just one aspect for me.[/QUOTE]If I tell you the moon is actually a big ball of cheese and you believe me then that is faith.

If I tell you the moon is a big ball of cheese and show you reports of scientists who have landed on and eaten the cheese (independent corroboration), but you don't go to the moon yourself, that really isn't faith, it is more like trust. You are trusting the scientists to present their cases truthfully.

[Madriver]

Originally posted by Yorick: Which is speculation. It's like suggesting Saddam and George Bush have the same parents simply because they both have two arms, two legs, hair and aggressive attitudes. It doesn't prove anything other than mice and humans share similar (minus 300 differences) gene codes. That is what has been found and proven. Anything else is speculation.

Did you read the link I provided to the Scientific American article that refutes many creationist theories? It is quite enlightening. [img]smile.gif[/img]