The horrors of bullying...

[True_Moose]

Terrible, terrible. We had a suicide like this in Calgary when I was in grade 6. If I remember correctly, the kid was in grade 5 and he had a least 3 hospital visits due to the bullies. He'd transfered schools, but the damage had been done: he ate his dad's gun.

I have to agree with Hunter and Cerek, though. Busting a lip might not be the nicest thing to do, but it's what you have to. Submission is the worst, and ratting them to teachers, while the encouraged "solution" isn't far behind, there is still a playground sense of honor.

Overall, just sad.

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by True_Moose: ratting them to teachers, while the encouraged "solution" isn't far behind, there is still a playground sense of honor.

To me the playground sense of honour helps the bullies and makes it worse. Now you have a situation where the bully can do whatever they like and make some kid's life a living hell, and they can say 'you tell anyone and you'll be breaking the code of honour', basically giving them a 'legitimate' reason to bully them more if they do tell. So the kid not only has to endure torment from the bully, but if they tell, also the ostracising of most of their classmates. The whole concept of protecting people like bullies because of some idea of 'honour' is ludicrous! If people are beaten or raped or mugged out in the real world and they know their attacker are they encouraged to keep silent so the perpetrator won't get into trouble? And yet if a bully beats up one of their classmates or engages in insidious mental and emotional abuse leading them to fake illnesses to miss school and totally withdraw into themselves and someone asks them who's responsible the honourable thing is to say 'no one'? What rubbish [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] .

[Epona]

This poor chap was a friend of a friend - although I didn't know him personally, I know several people who did know him well. Although young, he had spent much of his time campaigning against racism, and campaigning against fascist candidates in his home town. He was a thoughtful young man who wanted to make the world he lived in a better place. My condolences are with his family and friends. He will be sorely missed by many. Utter tragedy.

[Lavindathar]

This story is nothing new, its just another statistic. This happens far too much, and is in the papers in England, far, far too much.

It is a crying shame.

A girl three weeks ago in England, I think she was 13, tied metal wire around her braces, then threw it onto mainline train wires.

She died after 100percent burns, and 6 days in a coma.

[Bardan the Slayer]

Lavindather is right. It does happen alot, and it really is terrible. Many of these young people keep diaries of the bullying they suffer, and it makes for traumatic reading.

The reason they don't tell people? Because nothing gets done about it. Teachers are told, and nothing happens. The bully is given some kind of warning, thereby alerting him that a teacher has been told. his response? Bully some more, for revenge. It doesn't change when parents contact teachers either. They just don't seem willing to take action.

I remember when I was young and in elementary school. Whenever one of the kids ever reported an incident of bullying, the first words out of a teacher's mouth were "Don't tell tales." After hearing this a few times, kids stop confiding in teachers.

Either because of this, or because of the idiotic "playground honour" system alluded to earlier, the kids simply retreat into their own private hell. For many of them, a suicide attempt it a cry for attention (and I don't mean that in a belittling way). Sadly, for others, it is a final solution.

It is virtually certain that standing up to a bully and ramming his nose through his head would stop the bullying, but again - this country seems to have it all ass-backwards. If you confront a bully in a physical manner, often it is you that gets the punishment. When you are told fighting isn't the way to solve problems, if you reply "But I told you, and you did nothing" only gets you a weeks detention for insolence.

Sadly, bullying at work also seems to be a big issue. Many of the people who perpetrate the workplace abuse are probably the school bullies who never mistakenly picked on a kid who fought back.

One thing I learned at school was that for a bully, it's all about status. It's a way of them being able to demonstrate power. As soon as you show that they have no power over yu, it tends to stop.

It also may be of interest to note that it seems to be the girls who indulge in some of the nastiest group-bullying, where the *in* crowd have been known to gang up 15 - 1 against another girl, and pummeled her senseless.

All in all, it's a really sad situation, and I don't really see any solution that will suit everyone.

[wellard]

Barden that was one hell of a great post.

I still bear the mental and physical scars of bullying. I could not even look at this post for a day or so because the thread title gets me upset, and reading the posts makes me choke. My 2 thoughts on the subject for your feedback are.

1* Bullying is to soft a term, when it is prolonged over a month it should be called what it is TORTURE

2* As a society we have to get serious about this. In the same way we have about sexual assault. 20 years ago if a lady complained about sexual assault there was disbelief "she brought it on" attitude and basically just not taken seriously by the authorities. Now thankfully attitudes have changed and getting better *still a way to go* The same MUST be done with school torture victims.


Sorry if this post is angry, but it is the way I feel.

[Lord of Alcohol]

When I was in 7th grade (back in ancient times) an 8th grader decided to pick on me. After a couple weeks I popped him about 5-10 times in the head (and yes indeed I "busted his lip") and that put a stop to that. He actually said sorry a few days later. Of course his 8th grade buddy did beat the crap out me [img]tongue.gif[/img] But I fought back then too, so never really had a problem after that.

[Melusine]

And rightly so, Wellard.
I totally agree on how severe a problem this is.

Cerek, I don't think respect is earned by hitting someone. Any dumb moron can hit a person, does that make YOU respect them?
I agree that sometimes, it is a good thing for a bully to get a taste of his/her own medicine, and that may include getting a good whupping. But I completely disagree that this is the only way to do it, or that it's always a good way. As Bardan says, a lot of the time it's the bullied kid that gets the busted lip when it comes to fighting.
Standing up to a bully is the way to stop the bullying, I agree, but it can be physical and verbal. What's more important however is that the outsiders DON'T ALLOW the bullying. In most classes, there's one kid that gets bullied, a small group headed by a leader that does the bullying, and the rest sits and watches and does nothing. THAT sort of cowardice is what needs to be broken. I know what I'm talking about - I was in a class where people got bullied. Not severely, but they might have been if the rest of the class hadn't made it clear that they wouldn't stand for the bullying. If you make clear in a relaxed, mature way that you look down on the bully, are not impressed by his or her antics, it does help. The bullied kid is often not in the position to do so, but the rest of the class is.
Bullying is a social problem; if you feel bad for those who are bullied, you can at least do something about it yourself. What allows this to happen is the fact that the majority of people hides in the crowd and doesn't speak out.

[True_Moose]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: To me the playground sense of honour helps the bullies and makes it worse. Now you have a situation where the bully can do whatever they like and make some kid's life a living hell, and they can say 'you tell anyone and you'll be breaking the code of honour', basically giving them a 'legitimate' reason to bully them more if they do tell. So the kid not only has to endure torment from the bully, but if they tell, also the ostracising of most of their classmates. The whole concept of protecting people like bullies because of some idea of 'honour' is ludicrous! If people are beaten or raped or mugged out in the real world and they know their attacker are they encouraged to keep silent so the perpetrator won't get into trouble? And yet if a bully beats up one of their classmates or engages in insidious mental and emotional abuse leading them to fake illnesses to miss school and totally withdraw into themselves and someone asks them who's responsible the honourable thing is to say 'no one'? What rubbish [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] .

I agree. But a lot of kids don't see it that way. Not so much for girls, but for boys the stereotype is to simply suck it up and deal with it, or to fight back and stand up for yourself. I'm not saying they shouldn't say it, simply that that's what they think. I work at a summer camp, and oftentimes, the best way to deal with a bully is to talk to them, and get them to express themselves. Usually their pretty good kids, but they are angry and confused.

I also agree with Bardan. IMO, bullying is treated as a nuisance, a problem for kids to deal with in order to mature. However, it's so much worse than that. I remember watching a TV special on bullying a few years back. The parents and kids reported it to the administrator who said, "You've got to learn to deal with people. It's a fact in the adult world." And I think my feelings were best summed up with the comment of one of the parents, "When was the last time I got body slammed standing in line at a grocery store?"

It's adults not being able to understand kids, quite honestly. And if they can't, what the hell are they doing in education?

[slicer15]

One problem that I have with bullying is the groups. Its impossible to stand up to a bully if all his "friends" are surrounding him. That makes it worse, really, as they just laugh at you for trying. But bullying isn't that bad in my school, at least, not in a physical way. They will never actually hit you, and that could be a way to surorise them, as they never dare doing it themselves. They're mostly just talk. But I'm not a physical person. It would take a lot to get me worked up enough to actually hit someone. I can't stand violence, though granted I have occasions where I want to hit someone... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Joking aside, I would still never hit someone. It would have to take a lot, and I mean a lot. Maybe a life-death situation. I'm not sure. But I've never ever given anyone a good punch. Ever.