Turkey

[wellard]

I'm getting very confused over the issue of turkey and its involvement in Iraq. If it was against the war for moral reasons like France I could fully understand. If it was against the war why did the financial incentive tempt them so? Then we had the "no we wont let you send your troops across the border by road but we will let you fly in!? [img]graemlins/confused5.gif[/img]

And now it seems as though they are itching to send their own troops in "just a little way" but still wont let the Allied forces use the same roads?

I'm bloody confused, can someone please explain? The press is all about the war and I cannot find any stories about turkeys internal politics.

[Ronn_Bman]

Turkey has a large Kurdish population. The northern portion of Iraq is populated predominantly by Kurds. The Turks are afraid of a Kurdistan being established on their borders as part of a post war Iraq.

The Turks have a history of conflict with the Kurds. A long, bloody history.

Turkey says it wants to keep it's border secure by moving troops into northern Iraq. They already have troops inside Iraq, and they've been there for years, but now they want to increase their presence. The latest word is that they want to establish a 20 mile buffer zone along their border.

Their population opposes a war in Iraq, so that is given as the reason for not allowing ground troops, or the use of their airfields.

Some believe the Turks don't want coalition forces between them and the Kurds, and that's part of the reason for initially hindering coalition flights in their airspace after authorizing it's use by those forces.

Turkey also has historic claim to the northern Iraqi oil fields... and most of the Middle East.

It's quite a mess.

[Rokenn]

One big thing the Turks are afraid of is Kurdish nationalism. They are concerned that the success of the northern Iraq Kurds at establishing a semi-independant state will give the Kurds in Turkey the same idea and possible lead to the formation of a Kurdish state, which would either take some of their territory or lead to mass exodus of Turkish Kurds to Iraq.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Turkey also has historic claim to the northern Iraqi oil fields... and most of the Middle East. It's quite a mess.

hehe if they are going by old claims the Ottman Empire controlled much more then just northern Iraq at it's hieght. They could also claim most of the balken states, Egypt and a good bit of north Africa [img]smile.gif[/img]

Map

[wellard]

Originally posted by Rokenn: One big thing the Turks are afraid of is Kurdish nationalism. They are concerned that the success of the northern Iraq Kurds at establishing a semi-independant state will give the Kurds in Turkey the same idea and possible lead to the formation of a Kurdish state, which would either take some of their territory or lead to mass exodus of Turkish Kurds to Iraq.

But if that is the case why be so undecided about the war, With the allies keeping Iraq busy surely then it can use that diversion to influence the region in any way it sees fit, and with the money the U.S. was willing to *cough* loan surely it was a win win situation? And was not the reason for rejecting the money because it thought that military action against iraq was wrong.

Still confused [img]graemlins/confused3.gif[/img]

[Ronn_Bman]

The US moving troops through Turkey into northern Iraq, would have put a huge army in-between the Kurds and the Turks. Now the only thing between them are the lightly armored special forces. There are now three separate armies in northern Iraq. Each of those armies may have a different objective.

The coalition wants to disarm Saddam and then depose him but plans to leave Iraq whole.

The 4,000,000 Kurds in northern Iraq say they don't want a separate Kurdish state, but maybe they really do and would join with the 16,000,000 Kurds in Turkey to do it?

The Turks want to insure there will be no Kurdish state, and maybe gain some territory in the process, or at least put down the Kurds?

The questions about the motives of the Kurds and Turks are just questions, but they could have dangerous answers if acted on.

[Wutang]

I think that not having the 4th division in northern Iraq now is having deep impact on US operations.

Having the 4th ID near Baghdad right now could've eased a lot of pressure facing the 3rd ID.

Once the Iraq crisis is over, it'd be very interesting to see how the Kurd/Turkish is resolved.

[ 03-26-2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Wutang ]

[Bardan the Slayer]

Originally posted by Rokenn: Quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Turkey also has historic claim to the northern Iraqi oil fields... and most of the Middle East. It's quite a mess.

hehe if they are going by old claims the Ottman Empire controlled much more then just northern Iraq at it's hieght. They could also claim most of the balken states, Egypt and a good bit of north Africa [img]smile.gif[/img]

Map[/QUOTE]Fantastic! Can we go back to imperial times and claim the whole of the civilised world?

And there are some that have speculated that Turkey has a two-fold purpose.

First, continue it's long and bloody history with the Kurds by a bit of short and bloody future.

Second, to attempt a land-grab should such a thing be possible due to terratorial instability caused by the fall of Hussein.

I tend to think that the second is being overlooked, but is Turkey's primary motive.

[khazadman]

The Turks also claim they want to protect the ethnic Turks who live in north west Iraq. I think they have an eye on trying to control the northern oil fields (or part of it).

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by khazadman: The Turks also claim they want to protect the ethnic Turks who live in north west Iraq. I think they have an eye on trying to control the northern oil fields (or part of it).

The Coalition of the willing should establish a free and independent Kurdistan, just to spite Turkey! IF they'd let the 4th ID through their country this war might be over now!

[ 03-26-2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Sir Taliesin ]