SAG and possible death for Left Wing

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: Just out of curiosity, and completely [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] Was Joe McCarthy wrong? Granted he was a D*ck about it, and went completely overboard, but in light of what was revealed decades later...was he wrong?

MagiK, go see/rent the movie "Rock the Craddle" (or maybe "Craddle will Rock"). It's got J and J Cusak in it. It specifically addresses the impact of McCarthyism on Hollywood and artistic life.

What was wrong with belonging to the communist party? NOTHING. Belief systems are protected in the USA. No one knew this new governmental system would become THE ENEMY until Congress started calling them in 5-10 yrs. later to grill them for 4-5 days about one single "communist party" meeting they went to in college. And, if they didn't cough up names, they were labelled PINKO and ruined.

Note that there is potential for abuse that McCarthy exploited: the subpoena powers of Congress. Congress can make you testify about any issue it considers important for as long as it wants, and you cannot object, and there is no judge or jury to protect you. Q.v. Clinton hearings for other abuses of the Congressional subpoena power.

Traitors were the issue. McCarthyism ferreted out "deviants" and people who thought different. Just because your nuclear bomb killed 2 terrorists does NOT mean it was justified to ruin all the other lives. That's a fair analogy for McCarthyism.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Kakero: never really like that series, too much talking.

Ah, but having the most intelligent and witty dialogue is the one thing that makes the show stand out. Like the politics or not, the scripting is excellent. I like it because their conversations are much like those around a busy law office.

[wellard]

Originally posted by MagiK: Just out of curiosity, and completely [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] Was Joe McCarthy wrong? Granted he was a D*ck about it, and went completely overboard, but in light of what was revealed decades later...was he wrong?

I dont know you to well MagiK are you being sarcastic? I'm not trying to be funny myself, it's just that I can't judge your comment.

[Attalus]

Originally posted by wellard: I dont know you to well MagiK are you being sarcastic? I'm not trying to be funny myself, it's just that I can't judge your comment.

Actually, MagiK is right. "Tail-Gunner Joe" was a jerk, but he *was* right about some things: there were communists in the State Department taking orders fom Moscow, the American Communist Party was a Stalinist tool, and the Rosebergs were as guilty as sin and deserved what they got. All according to recently released Russian records.

[Timber Loftis]

None of which justified the witch hunt in Hollywood, Attalus.

[edit] PS: Anybody got a link to info re: these Russian records? Not challenging your statements at all, Atty and Messrs. Muppets. It's just that I am uninformed on this issue and would like to see what's up.

[ 03-05-2003, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[wellard]

Originally posted by Attalus: Quote: Originally posted by wellard: I dont know you to well MagiK are you being sarcastic? I'm not trying to be funny myself, it's just that I can't judge your comment.

Actually, MagiK is right. "Tail-Gunner Joe" was a jerk, but he *was* right about some things: there were communists in the State Department taking orders fom Moscow, the American Communist Party was a Stalinist tool, and the Rosebergs were as guilty as sin and deserved what they got. All according to recently released Russian records.[/QUOTE]I'll take it that it was serious *sigh*

Please dont try and justify this evil and vicious bullying. The U.S.A. own Spannish inquasition is a sad stain in your history books. Just because a few commies were caught does in no way begin to mask the horrendous wrongs commited to innocent people.

Which was the greater sin, the supporters of this vindictiveness or the silent majority? I hope their is not a growing movement in U.S.A. to try and alter history and to gloss over the wrongs of that era.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Davros: I have never seen the show, and I agree with MagiK (c'mon, it happens at least once or twice a month ) that it it ain't rating then the show goes to the scrap heap. One thing I did listen too yesterday though was a program on the ABC radio (our national broadcaster), and it was discussing (and building a case for) what it percieved to be an increasing trend back towards McCarthyism in the US. Made me think about some of the stuff on those website links that were discussed on an earlier thread about actors and their views and all the "Un-American" claims that were in both the thread and the website links. We joke about McCarthyism being historical and behind us now, but the radio program left me wondering if the "bad ole days" aren't in for somewhat of a comeback.

Davros, The problem with using the term McCarthyism to a non Goverment action or entity is that it is BS. In a free society free peoples have the choice of what they want to watch or not watch on TV, at the moives, etc. If they (the actors) for what ever reason produce a product the the people don't want the peolpe can't be made to take it. In a free society people DO NOT have to like each other, give a rat's rear end if others are happy, sad or if others delicate pshycie is warped or not. Free peoples are only required to follow what the laws of their country says they must do. ie: No open hunting season on the Hollywood left
People have just as much right to call the Hollywood left "Pinko Un-American Bed Wetting Crybaby Sacks of Horse Manure". As the Hollywood Left has to speak out against the war.
Now I find it extremly IRONIC that the SAG would use the term McCarthyism because free peoples are exercising their right to do want they want, when wasn't it the Hollywood crowd that lead the fight to Boycot tuna that didn't fall into their diffinition of Dolphin safe? That is why I wouldn't piss on the Hollywood left if they were on fire, they are willing to use a boycot that suits their purposes but cry like two year olds when it is used against them. As far as I can tell most of the actors are of legal age to be concidered grown-ups.I learned a long time ago if you piss-off youe customers, you have noby to blame but yourself, when they are nolonger interested in your product.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: None of which justified the witch hunt in Hollywood, Attalus. [edit] PS: Anybody got a link to info re: these Russian records? Not challenging your statements at all, Atty and Messrs. Muppets. It's just that I am uninformed on this issue and would like to see what's up.

Correct only if you are talking about government intervention, private individuals can hunt witches all they want as long as they break no laws.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: None of which justified the witch hunt in Hollywood, Attalus. [edit] PS: Anybody got a link to info re: these Russian records? Not challenging your statements at all, Atty and Messrs. Muppets. It's just that I am uninformed on this issue and would like to see what's up.

TL, I said in my post, that he was way out of line in how he did things, but the core idea was that Communists had infiltrated, it was born out in later decades that he was right. [img]smile.gif[/img] I disagree with his methods and I disagree with the over reaction, but the man was right, communists/stalinists were definately infiltrating government and at the time it was an issue. Attalus is right, there were people who deserved exactly what they got. In 1945 when the atomic bomb was exploded in Japan, Stalin already knew about the weapons, and he had the plans for making his own. There were communists who were committing treason, McCarthy just was an extremist about finding them. I acknowledge that he did wrong, but his basis was corect.

Originally posted by wellard: Quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Just out of curiosity, and completely [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] Was Joe McCarthy wrong? Granted he was a D*ck about it, and went completely overboard, but in light of what was revealed decades later...was he wrong?

I dont know you to well MagiK are you being sarcastic? I'm not trying to be funny myself, it's just that I can't judge your comment.[/QUOTE]Hi Wellard, no problem, I was being litteral. No sarcasm no trick. McCarthy comitted an injustice to the american people but the basic reasoning behind what he did were on target....see the more recent posts [img]smile.gif[/img]