Well, we usually have a very vocal board, wonder why no one has statred on...

[Reeka]

As the victim of a serious crime, Antonius, I don't feel sorry for sentences that criminals receive. I suppose I am almost apathetic about how they are punished because unless they suffer in the same way as their victims (and they never do), then the punishment never fits the crime and to me that makes the point mute. Therefore, they can be punished however society deems is appropriate, the punishment will not fit the crime anyway.

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O_H_F

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Moni: Well if my own two cents is worth anything I would like to say that when a murderer confesses and the law has undisputed truth that the person is actually the murderer, capitol punishment is befitting of the crime. I do think they let these people off too easy, putting them to sleep and then killing them. I think their deaths should match their crimes. Timothy McVeigh confessed with no remorse. He deserved worse than what he got. He was not a lunatic, he was a radical. I actually met him one night when he lived in Tucson. He was not a lunatic. He was, as many young middle class white men are, mad at a government that takes their hard earned wages and gives it to professional welfare families and prisoners to do with it the things they are denied in society without it. To keep people like this in prison for the rest of their lives is just a drain on the rest of the country's pocketbook and morale. We here in America pay taxes so that prisoners can get three square meals a day, college educations, have gyms, cable television and libraries. They live better than good moral people who struggle out among society just to get by. Personally I have been laughed out of offices granting funding for an education beyond High School for being a middle class white girl...behind minorities, refugees, and prisoners, I am the last in line. Its wrong but I won't go around killing other people for it. I paid for my own college education, struggling to raise a child and keep a roof over my head at the same time. It wasn't easy. However, a criminal can, in prison, get an education, a college degree, and change their name before their release in order to start life among society anew. With their reccomendations, they can be (and have been) my bosses. I think the judicial system should rethink what effects they are having on society as a whole when they put criminals in prison. and give them priveledges that they require us to pay for and then let these people out to have better lives than us. I like the Maricopa County (AZ) Sheriff's method...canvas tents and bologna sandwiches. People don't want to go back. 'nuff said for now. Moni

Yep! You, me, and Moiraine - all pretty well in agreement! Not in every detail, NATURALLY!! - but well enough. We seem to have remarkably similar outlooks, yet we are coming from such different convictions. Surprising, ain't it?

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[Wulfere]

Antonius...
The remarks I made about corruption were not aimed at you. If my overlarge boot came down on your toes then I apologize. In the last week I have heard several people running on at the mouth about consiracy. I suppose I took my frustration out on this board. Is there corruption? Yes. There always will be. Is there something we can do about it as individuals. No not much except to monitor our own actions and motives. In the end we have to rely on the organizations we have put in place through our votes.
.
I am not so rabid about Capitol Punishment that I would choose it over Life in prison. Unfortunately as I have said there is no such thing for all intents and
purposes. It was of course never meant as a deterrent. It was meant to rid the society of some one who has degenerated to the lowest level. But we inprison
people and give them every advantage they could ask for. In the end only a handful will ever use that and lift themselves up and out of the cycle. Minorities are predominate in prisons because they are usually those closest to poverty. Indians here are often sent to Federal Prisons because Reservations are
considered Federal Land.
.
To call us barbarians...?
Yup, probably we are considering we haven't been a nation for more than a heart beats time compared to the nations of Europe. But I don't take that as an insult. Whether it was meant to be or not. I will wear that as a badge of Honor.
.
Martyr, maybe to some of the anti government factions. But then again there are radicals in all our countries.
.
In any event this is now a moot discussion as it relates to the creature in Terra Haute.
Let us move on.
If I have offended anyone, I apologize. This is how I feel. So it is what I say.
I am not an academic. I have not attended more than a few days of College.
But I have experience in other ways and try to learn from mistakes both my own and those of others.

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[antonius]

Wulfere,

No apology necessary. When I re-read my post it did seem a bit "lone-gunman". I just find it frustrating that hundreds of years of legal principles can be demolished in a few years - and it's getting worse (especially over here).

[Wulfere]

Yes it is here too...Just take a look at the Property Seizure laws and that should leave you sleepless for a few weeks. They don't even have to charge you with a crime! Just show a judge that there is reason to believe that you have commited one, of now several HUNDRED crimes, then they can take away everything you have worked for. You get a hearing afterwards, but they get to choose the judge, so 90% of the time they keep it and thats it. Unless they charge you with a crime you can't prove you are innocent and they keep it. That law was used over 50,000 times during Clintons first term.

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Originally posted by Moiraine: Yorick, we don't kill our citizens anymore, but we used to, not so long ago ... I don't remember when exactly France abolished death penalty, but I was already born at the time. What are less than 50 years in regards of the amount of time humanity has been living on earth ? And more than a few right wing French citizens would like to restablish it.

1970

a bit late for the first christian democracy

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The Last Of the Red Fluffies

Member of the Ancients Club (@ age 16 )
High Magician of the Order of the Holy Flame


"Dream a Dreamers Dream And Know It Is But A Dream"

[KDogRex]

I think that the best solution for this would have been to parachute him into downtown Oklahoma City. Then just sit back and watch...

...imho, of course...

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No comment

[Yorick]

Australia's worst mass murderer is alive and languishing in a prison. He wasn't glorified or granted fame as a martyr, I don't even remember his name. He is a loser. The only good that came of the dickheads sensless act is that we now have tighter gun laws.

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Gaelic]

1. Overall, criminal penalties in the USA are puny, weak, and do not strike fear into the hearts of any criminals. People say deterrance doesn't work. They are right, but only because we as a country are weak on crime. Maximum penalties are rarely used, even for prople who commit crimes repeatedly. In jail, criminals interact with other criminals and learn how to be more skilled criminals. That is, of course, in between watching cable TV channels I can't afford, while working out on gym equipment I don't even have access to or making beaded wallets in the craft shop. What we need are HARD prisons, with straw mats, no TV or exercise equipment. HARD work, REQUIRED of all inmates, which generates enough income to pay for the prison system. Prison should be miserable, so nobody EVER wants to go.

2. As for corruption in law enforcement, you get what you pay for. As long as police (including the FBI, DEA, ATF, and your local sherriff) are among the lowest paid professionals in society, you will get the lowest grade of law enforcement there is. If you want smarter and better police, you must be willing to pay them, train them well and often, equip them well, and demoralize them by letting off everyone they arrest. You see, in this case, you must PAY first in order to attract the good people, not the reverse. The same goes for teachers, but that is another topic.

/rant off



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Gaelic

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Gaelic: 1. Overall, criminal penalties in the USA are puny, weak, and do not strike fear into the hearts of any criminals. People say deterrance doesn't work. They are right, but only because we as a country are weak on crime. Maximum penalties are rarely used, even for prople who commit crimes repeatedly. In jail, criminals interact with other criminals and learn how to be more skilled criminals. That is, of course, in between watching cable TV channels I can't afford, while working out on gym equipment I don't even have access to or making beaded wallets in the craft shop. What we need are HARD prisons, with straw mats, no TV or exercise equipment. HARD work, REQUIRED of all inmates, which generates enough income to pay for the prison system. Prison should be miserable, so nobody EVER wants to go. 2. As for corruption in law enforcement, you get what you pay for. As long as police (including the FBI, DEA, ATF, and your local sherriff) are among the lowest paid professionals in society, you will get the lowest grade of law enforcement there is. If you want smarter and better police, you must be willing to pay them, train them well and often, equip them well, and demoralize them by letting off everyone they arrest. You see, in this case, you must PAY first in order to attract the good people, not the reverse. The same goes for teachers, but that is another topic. /rant off

Well spoken and agreed Gaelic!


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Ever wonder if illiterate people get the full effect from alphabet soup?