Todays Genders in Society

[WOLFGIR]

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Originally posted by Gabriel:

As for the thinking processes I not sure want you mean here so without there info I just going to talk about what I know. Men’s brains are larger then women’s but women uses more of their. So this could mean that their brains developed better thought processes them mans and so they didn't have to be so big.

[ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: Gabriel ]

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Hehe. I just come to think of something I saw at a nature show ones..
It said that humans used hardly a fifth of their brain. (How they came to know or how accurate I don+t know) but that insects had much smaller brains than mammals but they used them to about 90%. (might have been just one insect though, it has been a couple of years ago). Hence the thought. What the heck do we do with the other 75/65 or whatever %´s?

Be nice to see if we can increase that percentage here eh?? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Gabriel]

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Originally posted by WOLFGIR:


Hehe. I just come to think of something I saw at a nature show ones..
It said that humans used hardly a fifth of their brain. (How they came to know or how accurate I don+t know) but that insects had much smaller brains than mammals but they used them to about 90%. (might have been just one insect though, it has been a couple of years ago). Hence the thought. What the heck do we do with the other 75/65 or whatever %´s?

Be nice to see if we can increase that percentage here eh?? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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Was that a shot, did he just try and take a shot at me?

You know I thought it was around 10% of their brain activly, some of the rest is used when your a child to learn speach and some (I think they said) was proably used to store memories.

[WOLFGIR]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabriel:


Was that a shot, did he just try and take a shot at me?

You know I thought it was around 10% of their brain activly, some of the rest is used when your a child to learn speach and some (I think they said) was proably used to store memories.

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Bang your dead, count to ten! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Nope Gabriel, I am never personal in my answers in these kinds of posts. So I just took your statement to make a genralising comment of it. That if we ALL started to explore more of that grey matter between our ears we might stop arguing about it and do something to improve current state of all beings dilemmas *sigh* I know.. Utopia..

So nope, I didn´t take a potshot at you Gabriel! (Did it really sound like that?? In that case I´m sorry cause that was not the case!)

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Originally posted by fable:


Magik, what you point to above is a difference in documented behavior, which I suggest is based upon cultural conditioning, not inate mental differences. Again, I think when you refer to "men think like women," etc, you're referring to the characteristics society trains its children to perceive as manly or womanly. Step outside the culture, and you might find entirely different norms. The ancient Greek historian Herodotus, for instance, pointed out that Babylonian men squatted to urinate, and regarded standing with scorn. Yet a modern Italian youth would be inclined to attack with fists (or worse) if you suggested he not stand to answer a call of nature.

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Ok fable Im not going to argue it any more, take a few college level psychology classes and then we can talk, but my PERSONAL life experience has proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is NOT social but physical differences in men and women that makes them think different...just check out CAT and PET scans of male and female brains when performing the same act, you will see a clear and distinct physicaly different pattern.

If you watch the Discovery channel long enough youwill see these experiments eventually [img]smile.gif[/img] they seem to cycle through the topics on a regular basis.

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Originally posted by WOLFGIR:
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About hunting magik, their are alot of evidence from archelogy digs that shows lately that women participated in the hunt along side men, some cultures even had the lions approach, the males stayed home and the women provided food, including hunting.

In egypt, under the reign of certain pharaoes and under Cleopatra theri were certain cavalier units consisting only female warriors. In some cultures women today are treated like shit. In some cultures women fight alongside men against injustices aremd to the teeth.

We are first and foremost tooluser adaptable like hell to any environment. These discussions marking words and phrases here and then is as creative as a bridge in Albania.. Why the heck never ever HOW can we make something better? What can we do to allow men and women to be the best they can without loosing integrity???

To me that is far more important, but that is just me..

[ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: WOLFGIR ]

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Wolfie I have repeatedly and repeatedly acknowledged that there were exceptions to my generalization ...tthe Amazon Warriors, the egyptian cavalry units you mention yes they existed..but were not the NORM It was HIGHLY unusual for men to go into battle and find themselves confronting females...It did happen...some times the females one the battle but in most cases (that I have read about) the Female warriors were wiped out..the Amazons didn't disappear by accident. Name a single country in this world today dominated by females, where Women run the government, own most of the property, make most of the laws....Is there such a place? I know of a few women leaders but where do the women totaly dominate..In the USA one of the countries that usually brags about its equal opportunity we still do not have parity for women at the top levels of industry or government. No women President, Vice President....there is a big gap at the top of industry too.

Gabe you asked what I ment by men and women thinking differently...what I am refering to is how they each process information. Men and women process information in drasticly different fashion, there have been studies done of men and owmen performing a list of tasks while their brains were being scanned these showed physical differences in their thought processes, and a battery of questions about how they were doing things and what they were thinking also showed very different processes for those actions.

Hope that clears thatup a bit for you...


Wolfie!!! Ment ot tell you...good post dude! (on the wolf pack)

[WOLFGIR]

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Originally posted by MagiK:


Wolfie I have repeatedly and repeatedly acknowledged that there were exceptions to my generalization ...tthe Amazon Warriors, the egyptian cavalry units you mention yes they existed..but were not the NORM It was HIGHLY unusual for men to go into battle and find themselves confronting females...It did happen...some times the females one the battle but in most cases (that I have read about) the Female warriors were wiped out..the Amazons didn't disappear by accident.

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Well, most important with my post were not the single out one point. Thoose societies had women and men in equal regards. Amazones were on their own and died out.

But the egyptian cavelry fought alongside the men and were very succesful. They weighed less the the male and the horses could move at a higher rate, that and the technology with the bonebow made them a devastating compliment to the egyptian army.

Sure, women were not out fighting as much, but that might give more value to the statement that women might use more of their brain than we men eh!? hehe

I think we need more women around ll over. I like women and have no problem with female bosses, or rather I have no problem "hating" any boss! (That last was a joke ok thought we might need to lighten up this discussion a bit! )

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Originally posted by WOLFGIR:

I think we need more women around ll over. I like women and have no problem with female bosses, or rather I have no problem "hating" any boss! (That last was a joke ok thought we might need to lighten up this discussion a bit! )

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I will second that! We need more women! [img]smile.gif[/img] Im very pro-female in my outlook, I don't sit around spending hours trying to find new and exciting ways to meet men, thats for sure!

[fable]

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Originally posted by MagiK:
Ok fable Im not going to argue it any more, take a few college level psychology classes and then we can talk,

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Leaving aside the fact that I took quite a few psychology and anthropology classes when I attended university and have continued reading anthropological studies for my own pleasure since that time, any argument ad hominem (attacking a fellow poster rather than dealing with the subject) is a discussion non-starter. You don't know me, so you don't know my background; and even if you were a professional sociologist and I was a student, it wouldn't invalidate the desire for evidence where statements alleging gender-specific behaviors were concerned.

but my PERSONAL life experience has proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is NOT social but physical differences in men and women that makes them think different...just check out CAT and PET scans of male and female brains when performing the same act, you will see a clear and distinct physicaly different pattern.

A while back you were discussing, to quote you, supposed differences in thought processes between the sexes; above, you refer instead to differences within the physical characteristics of the sexually-differentiated human brain. These are not identical points. One strongly established position in the field (by no means the only one) is that there are physical differences between male and female brains, but that cogitative processes themselves appear identical (Binstock and Cummins, etc).

I happen to concur with this view. So you'll get no argument from me concerning minute but significant physical differences in brain structure. However, I've not encountered any evidence of gender-based behavioral differences manifesting outside of social conditioning and obvious hormonal/gonodal factors. "Men are from Mars, Women from Venus" (which you previously brought up) is pop behavioral counseling, not the results of scientifically conducted research. It is also culturally specific: it deals with how men and women act within our society and at the present time, which in itself is a very large clue to its roots in social conditioning of the here and now.

You are welcome to draw upon personal experience for your beliefs, as I am: and mine lead me to the conclusion that male/female *behavior* is largely learned. If you have a scientific basis for the opposite conclusion, I'd genuinely like to hear it: more information means a better basis for whatever my final opinions will be, and likely that point won't be reached until death. And having taken some college-level psychology courses in my day, hey, who knows:? -I just might be able to understand a few of your highfallutin' words.

[ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

quote:

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Originally posted by fable:


Leaving aside the fact that I took quite a few psychology and anthropology classes when I attended university and have continued reading anthropological studies for my own pleasure since that time, any argument ad hominem (attacking a fellow poster rather than dealing with the subject) is a discussion non-starter. You don't know me, so you don't know my background; and even if you were a professional sociologist and I was a student, it wouldn't invalidate the desire for evidence where statements alleging gender-specific behaviors were concerned.

but my PERSONAL life experience has proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is NOT social but physical differences in men and women that makes them think different...just check out CAT and PET scans of male and female brains when performing the same act, you will see a clear and distinct physicaly different pattern.

A while back you were discussing, to quote you, supposed differences in thought processes between the sexes; above, you refer instead to differences within the physical characteristics of the sexually-differentiated human brain. These are not identical points. One strongly established position in the field (by no means the only one) is that there are physical differences between male and female brains, but that cogitative processes themselves appear identical (Binstock and Cummins, etc).

I happen to concur with this view. So you'll get no argument from me concerning minute but significant physical differences in brain structure. However, I've not encountered any evidence of gender-based behavioral differences manifesting outside of social conditioning and obvious hormonal/gonodal factors. "Men are from Mars, Women from Venus" (which you previously brought up) is pop behavioral counseling, not the results of scientifically conducted research. It is also culturally specific: it deals with how men and women act within our society and at the present time, which in itself is a very large clue to its roots in social conditioning of the here and now.

You are welcome to draw upon personal experience for your beliefs, as I am: and mine lead me to the conclusion that male/female *behavior* is largely learned. If you have a scientific basis for the opposite conclusion, I'd genuinely like to hear it: more information means a better basis for whatever my final opinions will be, and likely that point won't be reached until death. And having taken some college-level psychology courses in my day, hey, who knows:? -I just might be able to understand a few of your highfallutin' words.

[ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

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Sorry if you saw that as an attack on you, it wasnt. What i wanted to convey is that from what you were arguing ..you had either never attended any of those classes or (apparently) totaly discounted what they teach. Anyone as well read as you that hadnt found more than enough evidence out there that indicated that men and women think about things (information process) differently from each other is never going to hear anything I can say about the subject.

Second Paragraph, the physicly different ways in which males and females process information is either the cause of or the result of women processing and thinking about things in a different manner than men. But it comes down to the fact, that I can take you out side, walk down the street and show you a thousand examples of the differences between men and women and their though processes that are not caused by society but by them being different and society is the way it is because of those differences. I didnt memorize a long list of bibliographic information on text references on the subject, they are public and you could find them if you desire to do the research.
The hormonal and gonadal and ovarian factors that you seem to discount as minor are not minor at all. Check out the results of the SAT tests, check out the results of Myers Brigs tests, look at the ASVAB test results. There is every indication that women process information in a different manner....but again now I made my self a liar, because I said I wasnt going to argue this any more..*sigh* some days you just cannot win.....Anyway I was not attacking you...just suggesting that you attend classes..which you say you have so either your school taught completely different information or one of us is getting that information wrong.

Anyway I have tomorrow off so Im going out to play [img]smile.gif[/img] you all have a good weekend