Should you smack your children?

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Well, Magik, from my own experiences, I can say you are wrong about non-violent means being unsucessful. My parents didn't hit me and I learned what was and wasn't acceptable. I know a lot of families where coroporal punishment is not/was not used and the children know very well how far they can and can't go and are pretty well behaved, even the older ones, right through teen years. I've know a few families where spanking was the 'punishment' for most bad deeds and the parents regretted it later on as their children did in fact 'love' them, but also feared them and shared personal triumphs and tragedies with other people instead of their parents. Not all kids are the same and not all families deal with things the same way, but I can say this, I will not hit a child, mine or anyone elses. I've never had to and don't plan to start now.

Cloudy I agree wholeheartedly that one size doesnt fit all when it comes to raising kids. However, I live in a....interesting neighborhood and I see daily the results of "parents" not being parents. Im glad you never earned a spanking, but my kids have definately earned them, I don't advocate just one single way, but I do advocate that parents do what they NEED to do to raise their kids, which all too often these days does not get done. Living where I do, may color my vision to an extent but it didn't form my ideas on parenting...I took those from my parents and modified to suit my kids and what was effective. Im willing to bet the parents you mentioned that spanked their kids and then had the kids "share" with others rather than the parents were leaving something out of the equation. There has to be communication and understanding too, my kids fear me when they do something wrong, but they also know they can trust me to be fair and consistent and that I will listen to what they have to say and then explain why I choose the punishment I do. (this is a key reason not TO PUNISH WHILE ANGRY)

Originally posted by Melusine: quote: Originally posted by AzureWolf: I would like to think that my opinion is worth something. My sister I have practically raised her as if I were her father since she was born as her real father went back to America to absolve himself of responsibility to her. It may not be as valid maybe as a fathers but none the less I have raised this child as I would my own, my mother working long hours 6 days a week didnt exactly leave her bright and full of energy to cook and take care of my sister when she was home so I got left to do a lot of that. I never ONCE had to touch a hair on her head at anytime. She is now one of the most polite well mannered children you are ever likely to meet, and I loved every minute of it. So I may be only 18 but my opinion is worth something.

I absolutely agree, Azure! What a grossly condescending and arrogant thing to say, MagiK! [img]graemlins/1puke.gif[/img] Azure is probably not the only one who's had a part in raising a sibling, and we all have BEEN children, so we can judge about whether corporeal punishment worked in our own case or not.

Amber - I agree. The fact that nothing short of corporeal punishments worked for MagiK as a kid probably says a whole lot more about MagiK himself than about the merit of corporeal punishment.[/QUOTE]Sorry you dont like it Mel but be that as it may, you do NOT know what you are talking about, come back in a decade or two when you grow up and have raised a child. It is arrogant to assume you know anything at all about raising a child whithout ever having done it your self as an adult. Children (you included) should NEVER be in charge of raising children period! What you don't like about my post is that I spoke the truth about children not knowing something, a common failing in teens.

Raising a sibling whent here is a neglectful parent involved, is horrible, I can totaly sympathize, but just because a child rasied anothewr child does nto mean that he/she is qualified to raise the child properly or has the wisdom to make the right choices (heck even adults dont do that)

[ 05-16-2002, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Absynthe: quote: Originally posted by AzureWolf: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: I will also say that anyone who does not have children or if you are still a minor yourself, your opinion on this whole issue is useless. Untill you personally are responsible for bringing a life into this world and ensuring they are able to survive and flourish long after you are gone, you really don't have a clue. If you are a minor and have brought a child into the world, that just indicates that you do not have the wisdom to be raising a child in the first place.

I would like to think that my opinion is worth something. My sister I have practically raised her as if I were her father since she was born as her real father went back to America to absolve himself of responsibility to her. It may not be as valid maybe as a fathers but none the less I have raised this child as I would my own, my mother working long hours 6 days a week didnt exactly leave her bright and full of energy to cook and take care of my sister when she was home so I got left to do a lot of that. I never ONCE had to touch a hair on her head at anytime. She is now one of the most polite well mannered children you are ever likely to meet, and I loved every minute of it. So I may be only 18 but my opinion is worth something.[/QUOTE]Your opinion, like everyone else's, is definitely worth something. MagiK has a little defense mechanism that kicks in when he's opinionating: he usually tries to find some way to render all conflicting opinions moot. He wouldn't have to do that if he had some confidence in his knowledge, but he seems to feel that he's often on shaky ground.[/QUOTE]Umm no offense Abby but Im quite sure your speaking for me has led to a total false claim. I have no defense mechanism kicking in when children spout off about things they do not understand. Yes what I write is opinion but it is backed up by nearly 4 decades of increasing Juvenile deliquency, dropping test scores and poor behavior by children in general. Since the mid 60's the USA has been having the liberals lead us down the "no spanking" treat your child like a friend road and it has been disasterous for our culture and our country.

Oh and by the way..how many children have you raised?

[ 05-16-2002, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by MagiK: There are kids who have to grow up before their time, but the fact that they learned to survive does not mean they gained the wisdom to raise a child...even if they are raising one by proxy.[/QB]

The fact that you have procreated does not make you a good parent. Your own high opinion of yourself, coupled with your evident disdain of anyone else's ideas who hasn't gone through exactly what you have and reached exactly the same conclusions points out your own fundamentally flawed view of the subject. Your hubris is seemingly without end.
The best thing about the type of parenting you are espousing is that it usually dies out after a generation or two, as a child decides that they don't want to put their kids through the crap they went through.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by johnny: all i know at this point is that the parents and the child hardly ever communicate anymore, i guess the parents got afraid of him in a way, and of course that's not good. I don't know if the boy gets treatment in any way,

I won't pretend to know the answer to this situation, but I can unequivocally say that "locking yourself in your room and not communicating with your 8 year old child" is NOT the proper solution.
If one of MY kids did that, I would take the knife away (of course). I would then try to talk to him and ask him exactly WHY he had that knife out. At the age of 8, I can think of several possible scenarios:

1)He may be planning to injure himself.
2)He may get picked on in school (I did) and be fantasizing about revenge (did that too, but never with a weapon).
3)He may be thinking of hurting his parents (but that's questionable).
4)He MAY have been sleepwalking (not likely, but that could also explain the "strange look" in his eyes).
5)He may just have a fascination with knives. I did when I was younger. Not that I wanted to hurt anybody with them..I just liked knives and I was epecially fascinated with the larger ones.

The parents should DEFINITELY sit down and talk to the boy - or at least take him to a counselor. If they just shut him out now, their fears might become a self-fulfilling prophecy when he is older.

Sorry i called you "dude" catalina, i do that all the time. I know now that you're a girl/woman so that won't happen again. lol[/QB]

That's right. She is female. So from now on, she should be referred to as "dudette"

Just teasing. Welcome to Ironworks, Catalina. Enjoy your stay.

Ok I admit it. I was wrong about one thing...everyones opinion has value. But I will never take the advice of a non-parent on a parenting issue and I have never heard a child utter a single useful/helpfull suggestion on how to better raise my kids.

[Sir Taliesin]

Here are the rules for punishment in my house. After having been told to do something and not having instructions followed (I do allow some discussion) I will count to three. At the count of three my child is in timeout and he or she must go to his or her room and set on the bed. No TV, radio, books or toys until either I or mom say so. Afterwards they must do as they are told. The second offense in a spanking. One smack on the butt is sufficant to get our point across. I don't condone beating or smacking.

One of the thing that I see wrong with our schools now is the lack of RESPONSIBLE corperal punishment. I have no problem with a principle busting one of my children's butts (as long as it is handled in a fair way), if that straightens out the problem. Now-a-days, if a student does something wrong then they suspended them from school for some number of days. What does that do?

I have a seven year old girl, who is as good as gold and has been spanked exactly twice in her young life. My three year old son on the other hand is as stubborn as they come and has on several occasions warranted a spanking. The point is that no two children are a like in this regard. I find that raising girls is somewhat easier than boys. Boys (at least in my house) need a lot more supervision than girls do. I've noticed this with other families too.

I understand Magick's statement. It's the old "Walk a mile in my shoes" thing. I find it somewhat irritating that adults, without children, seem to have all the answers when it comes to raising them.

Raising children is the most difficult, demanding, frustrating and rewarding thing any of us will ever do. Once you have a child ALL your time WILL be spent raising that child. Everything WILL revolve around that child if your really care about your child. That includes punishing them when they do wrong.

Originally posted by MagiK: Oh and by the way..how many children have you raised?[/QB]

None of your damn business.

Originally posted by Absynthe: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: There are kids who have to grow up before their time, but the fact that they learned to survive does not mean they gained the wisdom to raise a child...even if they are raising one by proxy.

The fact that you have procreated does not make you a good parent. Your own high opinion of yourself, coupled with your evident disdain of anyone else's ideas who hasn't gone through exactly what you have and reached exactly the same conclusions points out your own fundamentally flawed view of the subject. Your hubris is seemingly without end.
The best thing about the type of parenting you are espousing is that it usually dies out after a generation or two, as a child decides that they don't want to put their kids through the crap they went through.[/QB][/QUOTE]Now you are reading things into what I said that I never did say. I didn't say being able to procreate made you a good parent, I even pointed out that especially in the case of minors having children this was NOT the case. As for your assumption about MY type of parenting [img]smile.gif[/img] You can't get me there [img]smile.gif[/img] Every child in history has uttered the famous line "Ill NEVER, do that to my kid" Fortunatley for humanity [img]smile.gif[/img] More times than nought this turned out to be totaly false [img]smile.gif[/img] As for my kids, So far they are healthy, HAPPY loving children who have to date done nothing that I can be ashamed of, I realize that they being only 8 and 11 I still have yet to navigate the teen years , so things still have to shake out some, but to date
I have two very alive and loving children to prove the effectiveness and the appropriateness of "MY way" of raising kids...well not MY way [img]smile.gif[/img] it is OUR way because my Ex and I have the exact same values and ideas on raising children. I think it truely does take two (a mother and a father) to raise children properly, though there have been exceptions. Try another tack if you want to get my goat Abby [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cerek Good posts all the way around...I want to reemphasize my belief that Spanking and smacking are NOT the same as punching and kicking or other violent physical assaults.

My 8 year old daughter understands this concept why is it so difficult for SOME older people to grasp?

[ 05-16-2002, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]