Should you smack your children?

[AzureWolf]

Originally posted by MagiK: As for never raising your voice around the kids thinking they will be all happiness and love..think again, I dare you to spend two weeks with a two year old.

A number of people, I wouldnt be surprised if Yorick is included in them have spent large amounts of time with two year olds and children of various other ages. It is not something restricted to being a birth parent.
I spent a year with a two year old....until she turned three
And in all that time, the number of times I had to just raise my voice I could count on one hand. And I never had to raise a hand against her ever, and she is now 5.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: Thinking about some of the "theoretical" experts on child rearing here, reminds me of some of the teen mothers on Jerry Springer, how they talk about loving their baby and how they are more mature than any of the adults in their life and that at 13 they are quite qualified to raise their baby.....scary to think that so many children think they are ready to be parents. Honestly and truely not trying to be mean here but I think people should have to be at least 30 and have had a rigourous apprenticeship before being allowed to bear children.

Ask a mother how many 'experts' are found in other mothers, who assume what happened with their own child, is true for all children. The knife cuts both ways.

However, you'd be happy to know, I have lived more than 30 years on this planet at least. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-17-2002, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Well firstly with that system, people would have to refrain from sex entirely until 30 or onwards,since there is always a possibility, even with contraceptives, and is there much difference between 27 and 30?? Not too much, with something ike that system, the line would have to be drawn somewhere, but I think it would have many different views.
Anyhow, that idea just repulses me, taking away freedom of sexual relations and havng a baby, which some feel is the greatest miracle of life until after 30, why should they wait that long?? Do you know they would get all that much more experience of the world's ways in a few more years??

[Yorick]

Originally posted by The.Relic: Yorick, I have to say that it has been my good fortune that my relationship with Brittany and Bryce has worked out that way. I never raise my voice to them in anger, nor do I ever even broach a subject when I am upset, I tell them we will talk about it when I am in the right frame of mind. That in itself provokes a response in them which makes them very unhappy and they come to me asking "Daddy, are you mad at me/us"? Once I have cooled down if I do get angry, I am able to tell them that, "No, I am not angry with you, my anger was with myself because my own emotions were not under proper control and I wasn't thinking as clearly as I should have been, but I am disappointed and perhaps even a little frustrated". That in itself is enough to make them consider their own behavior when inappropriate and we talk it out from there. My children are treasures and I see trememdous growth in them. The seek to resolve their own problems calmly and thoughtfully and rarely ever resort to violence. It also ehnances their self worth, and neither of them will seek out or tolerate peers who are violent or abusive. They want to have healthy lives as much as I want them to have them. . I am so blessed.

Incredible.

They are as blessed as you Relic. If not more so. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Yorick: I should have pointed out, that a key part of humanity is normalising our situation. It's a survival mechanism. We see it macro, regarding societies and natural hazards. I can't comprehend people choosing to live in an earthquake zone. Others get freaked by all Australias killing wildlife. Others are freaked out by a city, with it's crime. Yet the residents in the concerned areas normalise their environment. A victim of spousal abuse can, and does put up with what others would immediately reject. For years. The abnormal becomes normal. "How it is". We survive. So a child is going to normalise their situation. The key to punishing is diversity, not aggression, nor violence. If I child is always sent to their room, it loses impact. If a child is always docked pocket money, so that they never have any, or are in debt, again, the punishment loses effect. By losing effect I mean, presenting a long term behavioural shift. A smack may in the short term seem to work, by initiating change, yet these are mere survival instincts. Cmprehensive behavioural change is a result of choice, not instinct.

You know... I have read this three times and still have no idea what you are trying to convey [img]smile.gif[/img] Im pretty sure a 3 year old would not get it either [img]smile.gif[/img]

I may not be able to out write you in trying to explain my views, Im left with falling back on the one thing that will do more to explain what I mean than any words I can write....Raise a child of your own, then come talk and we can discuss things from a more common reference. Im not saying you will come to the same conclusions but Im sure I will have many laughs at your attempts of trying to talk or reason with your 2 year old [img]smile.gif[/img] (not not all spanking involves pain, at two the swat on the diaper is all about startling them and getting their attention fixed on an unpleasent notion associated with some behaviour)

Originally posted by AzureWolf: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: As for never raising your voice around the kids thinking they will be all happiness and love..think again, I dare you to spend two weeks with a two year old.

A number of people, I wouldnt be surprised if Yorick is included in them have spent large amounts of time with two year olds and children of various other ages. It is not something restricted to being a birth parent.
I spent a year with a two year old....until she turned three
And in all that time, the number of times I had to just raise my voice I could count on one hand. And I never had to raise a hand against her ever, and she is now 5.[/QUOTE]Oh puhlease! dont go dragging that tired thing out again. Spending time with two year olds has NOTHING in common with being a paerent.

Just because I babysat for years as a kid did not mean that I knew the first thing about parenting.

[Lord of Alcohol]

So its not ok to smack your kids when your angry. Do you have to wait until your happy to spank them? Perhaps institute a series of random spankings at random times and random severity just to "keep them on their toes"? After all they have to have done SOMETHING wrong at some point.

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by The.Relic: Yorick, I have to say that it has been my good fortune that my relationship with Brittany and Bryce has worked out that way. I never raise my voice to them in anger, nor do I ever even broach a subject when I am upset, I tell them we will talk about it when I am in the right frame of mind. That in itself provokes a response in them which makes them very unhappy and they come to me asking "Daddy, are you mad at me/us"? Once I have cooled down if I do get angry, I am able to tell them that, "No, I am not angry with you, my anger was with myself because my own emotions were not under proper control and I wasn't thinking as clearly as I should have been, but I am disappointed and perhaps even a little frustrated". That in itself is enough to make them consider their own behavior when inappropriate and we talk it out from there. My children are treasures and I see trememdous growth in them. The seek to resolve their own problems calmly and thoughtfully and rarely ever resort to violence. It also ehnances their self worth, and neither of them will seek out or tolerate peers who are violent or abusive. They want to have healthy lives as much as I want them to have them. . I am so blessed.

Incredible.

They are as blessed as you Relic. If not more so. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Increadible and highly unlikely, but Ill accept his word and mention that he might possibly want to notify the Guiness people.

I personally have never met a human who has never raised his voice. But that only speaks to my own limitations

[ 05-17-2002, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Originally posted by MagiK: I never said Logic was the key to spanking dude. I was just trying to convey the fact that any one who thinks they can "talk" their 3 year old out of chewing on the lamp cord or talk them out of sticking a fork in their little sister just doesnt have a grasp of what raising a kid is like, they do not want to discuss their behaviour the only thing that really stays in their minds are the strongest natural teaching sensations. good taste, bad taste, pain, pleasure the word NO has little meaning for children until they associate it with a well remembered sensation. Let me know the next time you raise a child never having raised your voice and only having reasoned with them to the age of 3 and let me know how it works out.

I haven't once said I wouldn't raise my voice, I just said that I do not believe spanking is necessary.
And yes it can go with a well-remembered sensation, but the word no carries a lot of connotations with it, perhaps from whil at that age and just having NO! said loudly to you is a remembered sensation, as at that age I'm sure it could be quite effective.

[Ladyzekke]

Picturing swatting a two year old on the diaper gives me a bit of the chills. I NEVER had to swat my son ever, nevertheless at two years old!