Should you smack your children?

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Absynthe: Cloudy, you only disagreed with him because you were hoping to get a spanking! I see right through you, you naughty girl.

ROTFLMAO!!!!! Absynthe! [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] Ok, ya found me out.. I faked the whole argument with him just for that.. HAHAHAHA... [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]

Now go play on the bondage teddybear thread you bad green beverage! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Catalina: I agree with Avatar, cultural backgrounds probably count a lot. Personally, I have never been hit/ slapped by anyone. I think, based on that my father got his guts beaten out of him too many times, this is something he didn't want me to ever expirience. I am really thankful for that now, and I hope I can manage to raise my children in the same spirit. This has BTW been a very interesting thread to follow, even if it got pretty hot!

Sounds like your dad was abused, not spanked

[Sazerac]

Ok, I've been out of the loop on this thread for a bit (schedule got hectic yesterday), but I can see that a lot of *ahem* activity occurred on it.

It is amazing to me how ordinarily rational, mature individuals can descend to the least common denominator of behaviors when involved in a controversial discussion. I'm talking about taking pot shots, hitting below the belt, picking apart other's arguments line by line, and taking things that have been said apart and twisting them out of context. I've seen it happen again and again, and it never ceases to astound me. It makes me wonder, are you really interested in sharing ideas, or scoring points in a debate. Let me tell you something, guys...NO ONE'S KEEPING SCORE...except the moderators, and that score is one you DON'T want to run up. And we ARE watching...don't ever doubt that for one single minute.

I agree with Mouse that if this thread continues to descend and get more out-of-bounds, we will have little choice but to lock it down. That would be a travesty, and it would be awful for Mouse to have to do that as his first official act as a moderator.

Memnoch's points about the "trolling" behavior is very apropos. I've seen at least three different individuals here engaging in, at the very least, *borderline trolling*, and some have crossed that line as well. If your entire point about making a post was to cut others down, belittle their opinions, and try to "score points" for yourself by throwing out controversial statements with the intent of provoking responses from others, we (as moderators) would prefer that you just not post at all in such threads. For those of you who respond to those *barbs*...don't! That's what people who throw them out are looking for; an antagonistic response. Just let it "roll off of you" and go on about your way. (Ye gods and firestones, I sound more like Memnoch every day! [img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img] )

Back to the issue at hand...I've seen both sides extensively, and the last thing I'm going to say on the subject of child punishment is this: anyone who thinks that one single solution will work for all kids has another think coming. That's like saying that one "miracle elixir" medication will be a cure-all for every ill you have, from piles to tuberculosis. . Behavior modification is the name of the game, guys, in whatever form it takes. I personally would prefer that it take a nonphysical form, but in extreme cases, sometimes physical punishment must be applied that is swift, non-angry, and appropriate to the situation. Again, I personally would only engage in such behavior as a last resort, when all other non-physical means have failed to modify the behavior. Pain need not be present...just enough of a tap or a swat to get one's attention and let them know you mean business.

One last thing...whatever method you choose, it must be applied CONSISTENTLY, and it must start from the cradle onward. If one has allowed one's children to run wild for the first 8 years of life, then starts trying to discipline them when they're 9....I've got three words for you: "Good luck, sucker." [img]tongue.gif[/img] It's not the lack of physical discipline, but the lack of ANY discipline, that causes kids to grow up haywire and, possibly, produces situations like Columbine High School and other tragedies...in my opinion, that is. [img]smile.gif[/img]

One thing is for certain: You alone know best how to raise your children. I would no sooner tell someone how to raise their kids than I would hope no one would come into my classroom and tell me how to instruct them. Different styles, different methods...if they work, and are non-abusive, then I'd say let it ride.

-Sazerac

Originally posted by Animal: I am a single father of a 9 year old girl. I haven't physically disciplined her ever, as I have never needed too. There are alternate methods of punishment that work just as well. I was raised with an iron fist, if you you will as my parents were believers in spankings. It is a very fine line between discipline and abuse, but I think it's the responsible parents choice. Read that last part again, because it's important: Responsible parent. Spanking is an easy way out. If all other means have been exhausted and I mean all other means, then spanking my be the only thing that the child understands, but as parents we must change with the times. I hated my parents for the way the raised me, but I love them for the very same reason. That was the times that we lived in. If I need to discipline Ashley, I take away some of her priviliges. A boy may be different, I don't know as I've never been in that situation, but as a parent it's my job to insure my child grows up to be a responsible adult, and if she hates me for it in the process, then so be it. At least I'll be able to sleep easy knowing that she is a kind, caring, responsible adult.

Good post. And you are 100% correct boys and girls ARE different..at least in my experiences as a child and a parent. My family and Mary's family are extremely...I don't know the word to use, tough, hard headed and stubborn...taking away priveledges never workled on us or our siblings, the only thing we respected was the strength of our fathers. These qualities were passed on to our children and so the "kinder, gentler" forms of persuasion did not work (believe me we tried) It was amazing for me to see what a difference it made when we started spanking, only needed to do it a few times and they both got the hint and straightened right up...now thigs are pretty sedate for us [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] I continue to be amazed at all the people who say that spankings or physical pain are sometimes the ONLY thing a child will understand. I understood quite well what NO tv or SIT on the stairs meant! And being physically plopped on the stair when I got stubborn, sure worked. Maybe I was just God's gift to the world of parenting? LOL I highly doubt that! [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img] I've had to deal with a friend's son who was a handful, an only child (SPOILED). You know what worked on a whiny brat one day? He whined and whined and WHINED for an hour about not wanting to go to the store with me and his aunts and grandmother unless we bought him something (he was about 7 or 8 by this time) and he got into a mini-tantrum tossing his toys at the sofa. His grandmother and one aunt were saying ok, they'd buy something to shut him up.. I said "No, I won't go shopping then". Told him he was being selfish and that people shouldn't have to buy him something just to go out or be obliged to EVERY time they went out. He threw a tantrum, demanded to GO to the store and I said quietly, "Well, I thought you just loved me and liked me to visit, I didn't realize all you wanted from me was toys." and started up the stairs.. he RAN AFTER ME and asked me to repeat what I'd said, I did, he cried and said "NO! That's not true!" but I went upstairs anyway. We did go shopping and he didn't ask for a thing. Later his grandmother bought a video he'd wanted but I had no control over that. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I dunno, I've seen his mother get exasperated, but she never spanked him, and he's turned into a pretty decent kid at 11, too! I think kids respond to how the adult reacts as well. One of my friends who used time outs and never spanked, would put her hands on her toddlers shoulders in mid-rage (kid's, not hers!) and say calmly, "enough, that's enough" and it worked every time I saw her do it. Oh he still sniffled but stopped the out of control screaming. I know I didn't lie to my Dad because I loved and respected him and also because I knew how he felt about it and didn't want him to disapprove of me. Not because I feared PAIN of the physical kind, but pain in the sense of letting him down. You know... I'd rather live with the latter memory, myself. [img]smile.gif[/img] PS: Cerek, I've seen BADLY applied Dr. Spock drivel not work, my own uncle used it and they never really disciplined their kids while young. The kids were out of control brats! BUT PLEASE NOTE: I have VERY close friends, a married couple who raised two kids on the time out/extra chores/no privileges method and talked with their kids about everything. They reasoned, punished accordingly but never spanked. Let me tell you, those are two incredibly well behaved young people today! The boy is almost 16 and the daughter is 12. I can honestly say, I've never seen better behaved American kids.

Cloudy [img]smile.gif[/img] You were gods gift to parents [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Animal: Perhaps me original post was not clear. There may be some children that only understand a spanking, I don't know, I've never needed to do that with mine, but I've seen a few children who are completely unruly. I attend a single parents group, and one of our members has quite a problem with her 11yr old son. He has been physically abusive with her mother actually striking her. Now she is quite a tiny lady, so what is a parent to do in that situation? I am no advocate of child abuse, and many parents find hitting their kids an easy way out, but I will not rule out any possibility. Besides, my physical stature is usually enough to intimidate most children when need be. LOL

If you have never struck your child, where do you get the idea that spanking is an easy way out for anyone? I have never enjoyed having to spank my kids, and it was a sad experience for all involved. But love and parenting isn't all about sweetness and light, you have to do what you have to do.

Originally posted by John D Harris: quote: Originally posted by Lord Shield: quote: Originally posted by Melusine: quote: Originally posted by Lord Shield: may as well leave the kid-beaters to it

Just so everybody knows - those are LS's words, not mine (just to be sure as some people have a tendency to merge all the opposing voices together). I think every parent should decide for him/herself what the best way of raising a
child is and I do not call anyone who raises their hand to their child a kid-beater - I'd have to call my own parents kid-beater in that case.[/QUOTE]thsoe wortds may have been strong but what I meant was leaving it to the parents that think pain is the answer, since they find reasons to disallow opposing viewpoints[/QUOTE]Lord Shield, and Miss Melusine Ma'am do you not see that the disallowing goes both ways? Honestly Look at the title of this thread the word "SMACK" is used, I'm willing to bet in All of it's negative conotations (SP?). It allready assumes that spanking is negative, evil, only to be used by the most Trogliditish (I just love making up New Harrisism's) of parents. HELL the first page is allmost exclusively made up of ANY PARENT that spanks, swatts,thinks about it, even for a fleeting moment is evil hateful, UNLOVING, stupid parents, posts. Please stop the disallowing viewpoints stuff, it "SMACKS"(pun intended) of Hypocrisy and is beneath both of You. Consider the "Cloudy" approach Miss Cloudbringer, has been very effective at presenting an opposing view. She has neither thrust upon, or had thrust upon her this "If you disagree with me you are being close minded and are just mean, Oh by the way I don't have to be held to the same standard" stuff.

I'm coming down on both of you because I have found both of you in the past to be intellectually honest, and honourable in the majority of your posts. But you are both grownup enough to make up your own minds on what I have written. I just hate to see such fine and reasoning thinking viewpoints, sink to become the very thing they dispise.

Don't that sound nice, actually I don't give a DAMN. (just KIDDING I've been sitting on that saying for awhile and haven't found a time I could use it )[/QUOTE]Good point, JD. I had thought about saying pretty much the same thing but gave it up as pointless.

[Cloudbringer]

LOL! MagiK does your wife ever get the last word on anything?

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Thing is, John, some of us have empirical knowledge I didn't just read it, I've dealt with kids in person over the years. Sometimes I was more than happy to hand them off to mommy and daddy too.. LOL [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cloudy [img]smile.gif[/img] I never said if you were not parents of your own children you didnt know ANYTHING about children. I just said I wouldnt value any opinions on raising said children...then later ammended that to I wouldnt value them very highly. It was not actually ment as an insulting thing though I knew it would be taken as such [img]smile.gif[/img] and I accept the vitriol that resulted, however, my basic premise still stands ... untill it is all on your very own shoulders and theres no one to "dump them off" to, you really do not know what being a parent is all about....it is just one of those things you have to be there for.

[quote]Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:

The point is that SOMETIMES, physical punishment IS the only option. (BTW, he is NOT a "bad" child. He just has a fiery temper. Everything I've heard and seen suggests this is fairly normal for the second sibling). Oh...one more thing....when a child throws toys (like Cloudy's nephew(?)), pick the toy up and throw it in the trash can. THAT works wonders. (This was another favorite tactic of Jared's...one he is learning to overcome so that he doesn't lose any more toys).

Unless that second sibling is a girl and the first is a boy...it is amazing to watch her learn from his mistakes..then manipulate him into taking the heat...of course I don't let her get away with it..but some times I have to wonder...why my son doesnt realize what she is doing [img]smile.gif[/img]

As for throwing misused toys away, I do that too [img]smile.gif[/img] it really does wonders...especially when I threw Kristens "Land Before Time" tape in the trash when she wouldnt pick it up...she was heart broken but she learned the lesson.