Should you smack your children?

Originally posted by Lord Shield: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: First off do you want me to go back over all your previous posts and check for grammer?

gee let's see? is the thread topic concernign grammar? nope! then what thwe f*ck for?

Originally posted by MagiK: Thirdly I was wrong..I did not start this thread...I came to work fully intending to start this very subject, but it had already been started and I got so wrapped up int he discourse that I forgot..I had not started it. So I do apologize for that error.

that was not my gripe. Your statement "I started this thread" was in answer to my question "who are you to jusge others?". I dispute this reasoning. you do NOT have that right[/QUOTE]The first answer is...in response to your comment on my use of quotes.

Second answer. Im just this guy who decided he wanted to start a debate and see how many people would jump at the subject [img]smile.gif[/img] I have as much right to make threads..and posts as anyone, you are free to disagree [img]smile.gif[/img] I do feel mortified that Avatar started this and I just spaced and assumed I had done it.

Oh and about judgeing others...we are ALL responsible for judgiung others, we do it every day, we judge if someone is dressed properly, we judge people for robbing the bank we judge people for their opinions on topics that are controvertial. Parents judge ever second of the day when they are raising thier kids...and it all involves evaluating the acts of others so ...my question to you is...who am I NOT to judge?

Originally posted by andrewas: Well im probably on magicks side when it come to the spanking issue. But im dead against what hes saying about who has the right to have an opinion of the subject. The _only_ people who dont have the right to an opinion are those with _zero_ experience of the subject. And im guessing that everyone here was a child at some point.

Every one has the right to have an opinion [img]smile.gif[/img] never said they didn't [img]smile.gif[/img] I just said that some arent worth the brain cells that store them....and I did ammend that statement some time ago [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Azred: belle and I put our heads together and decided that TJ would receive spankings for one offense only--lying. I don't mean the "little white lies" kind, either; this has happened only twice in the last two years. One smack on the rear is more than enough to properly capture his attention. The rest of the time the suspension of privileges, the removal of toys, and confinement to his room (where he may play, if he so chooses) are sufficient punishments. He remains well-behaved most of the time (as much as any normal 6-year-old child can be) and really doesn't get in trouble too terribly often. It is not so much the parents who occassionally discipline their children that concern me, only the ones who cross the line into abuse. My definition of abuse is "punishment that leaves bruises, welts, etc." This includes those parents who neglect their children, leaving them alone for long periods of time or let them run around outside after a "reasonable" time for going back indoors; belle sees plenty of kids every day who get taken into the store where she works up until 11pm. Those poor children cry because they are cold, hungry, tired, ill-mannered, or some combination of the above. There is no "magic rule" that will apply to all children in all families; each situation must be dealt with singly. For those of you who have children, ask yourselves these questions: if I were my child, would my home life be happy? would I want to receive the punishment that my parent is meting out?

Az [img]smile.gif[/img] 6 year olds are all about getting in trouble [img]smile.gif[/img] As for the reasons for spanking Lies and seriously injuring their sibling (more than just a scratch) are the only things gaurenteed to get spankings in our home. Excepting those two issues after we let it be known we would spank they have been pretty much just good kids, they come when called (just like our dog) we don't have to tell them repeatedly to do something....they know that they can control their comfort level...work with us...things are fine...work against us and you suffer...pretty basic [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: Well then Magik, if you are going to discard the opinion of anyone for that reason, shall I then discard yours because of it's falw?? You smack your kid occasionally, yes?? Well then, how do you know it's effective without being the reciver, maybe it doesn't make him harbour hatred to you, but that doesn't mean it won't in other situations, and still being happy with you doesn't necessarily mean your son isn't affected by them. By using pain as a method of discipline you aren't necessarily making them do good because they realise they should, they will most likely do it because of fear of punishment. A successfully raised child shouldn't need to be smacked IMO, because they would have strong moral values and not just be good because they subconsciously relate it with being smacked.

Your flaw is basing that whole comment with no direct observations to back it up. [img]smile.gif[/img] My method worked for me, might not work for you, worked for my dad with 4 kids..and his dad with 11 kids and hius dad with 9 kids.....worked on the other side of the family too, amazingly enough, the human race survived untill the mid 1960's with the majority of the human race using physical punishment. So far since the 1960's ....well I already enumerated to results we have been seeing in this country...results in your country may be different..but I havent seen any news out of utopia in the press lately.

As for kids being Psychologicly damaged by physical punishment..bull puckey! Kids may be damaged by abuse but we define abuse differently I assume.

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Um, I don't know where abuse came from, I was talking about physical punishment, and I don't necessarily scar them majorly for life, but things that they may not notice because they can't remember not acting or being that way, and still effects the child negatively.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: A successfully raised child shouldn't need to be smacked IMO, because they would have strong moral values and not just be good because they subconsciously relate it with being smacked.

Talthyr,

I'm very glad you brought this point up, because I think this goes to the heart of Magik's viewpoint.

My oldest son (who is only 5) is an exceptionally compassionate child. When he was only 2 years old, my wife's sister brought her family down to visit from Pennsylvania. Her son was only 18mos old and the 700 mile trip took a real toll on him. He was crying miserably and nothing could console him. Levi about went bananas. He offered him his own cup of juice, tried to hug and kiss him, ANYTHING to calm him down. This compassion has only increased with age. He is also a very intelligent and mature child for his age. I can assure you he has good, strong moral values. He has a very good understanding of right and wrong.....

HOWEVER, there are STILL times when nothing short of a spanking will make him behave. It's rare, but there are times when ALL methods simply have NO effect.

That's what I think Magik is trying to say. Until you are actually IN a situation 24/7, your opinions (no matter how well researched) will be no more than speculation.

I promise you, I have done things that I SWORE would NEVER happen with my kids.

Cloudy has legitimate experience dealing with children. But again, I can tell you from experience that MY kids behave MUCH better in school or at the babysitter's than they do at home. WHY? Good question. I wish I knew. But it's true.

We've had to literally hold my youngest down to FORCE him to drink some medicine when he was sick with a fever, only to see him walk right up to the babysitter and drink it from her spoon without so much as a quibble.

BTW, she has spanked them too when necessary, so it isn't that they felt like they were "treated better or more kindly" over there.

Kids will naturally test the limits the parents set for them to see how far they can go. You have to draw the line and stick to it decisively, or they will become less well behaved regardless of what "punishment method" you use.

[ 05-16-2002, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

[Avatar]

Hi everyone [img]smile.gif[/img] The last post I read was post number 3. Now that I'm back after a few hours, a raging argument is fully thrown across this topic.

Here is what I think:

Frankly I don't know if I would. I think the situation is a major factor. I mean, if you asked me to actively think about it as I am asking you to do so, then I guess no... but there might be cases where a gentle bottom smacking is in order BUT NEVER anything that will hurt! Just a playful pinch! I could never do that.
Can everyone chill and calm down?
No one is right on this issue as it is totally up to the person. Just state your case an dreason and keep out of other people's.

Oh and why did Groj smack me? waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa i wanna my mommy! [img]graemlins/agree.gif[/img]




CHILL everyone! And have some fruit juice [img]tongue.gif[/img]





MagiK: Cultual Backgrounds are a major influence on how you teach your kids as well as what aspirations you have for your kids. If you want your kids to be well brought up, excellent manners..etc. fine. But please don't devalue what others think because you should appreciate what standards different people have.
I am saying that we all have different and varying demands on our kids and therefore depending on our own bringing up...etc. Everyone is different.

P.S. Not sure what your PM meant MagiK.. sorry! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Catalina: Good point on how one would react if someone else hit their kid(s). I know I would be darn angry but if it was a very legit reason I might not go beserk [img]tongue.gif[/img] .

Here is a Question:

Just how many of you have actually been smacked more than once or twice as a child here?

My thanks. [img]smile.gif[/img]


[ 05-16-2002, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Avatar ]

Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: Um, I don't know where abuse came from, I was talking about physical punishment, and I don't necessarily scar them majorly for life, but things that they may not notice because they can't remember not acting or being that way, and still effects the child negatively.

hmmmm Im not entirely sure I understand what you mean then.... can you repharse it?? Im not trying to be a smart ass here..really...I just dont understand what you are saying.

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Well you said kids may be damaged by abuse, and that we define them differently, but I was just wondering where abuse had come from, as I was only on about spanking etc.

Originally posted by Avatar: Hi everyone [img]smile.gif[/img] The last post I read was post number 3. Now that I'm back after a few hours, a raging argument is fully thrown across this topic. Here is what I think: Frankly I don't know if I would. I think the situation is a major factor. I mean, if you asked me to actively think about it as I am asking you to do so, then I guess no... but there might be cases where a gentle bottom smacking is in order BUT NEVER anything that will hurt! Just a playful pinch! I could never do that. Can everyone chill and calm down? No one is right on this issue as it is totally up to the person. Just state your case an dreason and keep out of other people's. Oh and why did Groj smack me? waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa i wanna my mommy! [img]graemlins/agree.gif[/img] CHILL everyone! And have some fruit juice [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Hey Avatar [img]smile.gif[/img] Thanks for the great thread and please see the PM I sent you [img]smile.gif[/img] As for chilling, I really am cool as a cucumber here [img]smile.gif[/img] I know I pissed some people off (two in particular)but I kind of figured I would since I had decided to be blunt and not politicly correct in how I phrased things. Tact doesnt always make for lively debate.