Tough Bunch

[CursedShadow]

I am having a heck of a time with the Goblins and Preistess' at the end of the second level of Dragon's Eye. Can anyone offer a poor traveler some guidance?

[pritchke]

Goblins, I think you mean trolls. The best way to fight them is at the entrance neck. You can if you want move out to take out the priest on top of the platform but then rush back through the neck befor you are surrounded by trolls. I usually blocked the neck entrance with damage spells and any priest comeing through I would take them out first. If you have to retreat than do so turning occassionaly to take out those that are faster. The other way is just to go in a fight the battle at the bottom of the platform to do this it is recommened that you have lots of creatures to summon as it isn't going to be a cakewalk. Have your mage use fire or acid arrows so your fighters can attack another troll, even with the magical weapons thay sometimes miss to much with the magical part with my likeing. Other than that it is a tough battle, Good Luck.

[ 10-13-2002, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[NobleNick]

CursedShadow,

Hard to give specific advice when I don't know your party composition, but...

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Do you mean the level with the, phase spiders, sword spiders a few lizardmen, and beetles, captive children (including Conlan's son) and contains a very narrow, dark passage down to a big room with a big altar with about 8 trolls (not goblins) and 4 talonite priests and priestesses holding the priestess of Ilmater captive? The level which also has a downward spiraling pathway to the next level? I think this is the second level; and I just completed it (for the 2nd time) last night.

Yeah, this can be really tough. The initial encounter is, by far, the hardest part, since all of the talonites and most of the trolls come after you right from the start.

First off, you know about the trolls-not-really-dying thing, right? They will look dead, but the only way to finish them off is to hit them while they are lying there with something like fire arrows, acid arrows, magic missile or (my favorite) those jars of flaming oil you collected from the lizard shamans on the same level and on D.E. level one.

Second off, the trolls are nasty but the talonites (priests/priestesse) are nastier! I'd prefer to take on 8 trolls simultaneously, rather than 2 priestesses and 2 trolls: Getting "hold person" thrown on you is a big time bummer. Target these fine folks first, anytime that they are within sight, or you'll be sorry.

Third, I hope you have a magic user. (Also, a bard carrying "Bardic horn of Valhalla," while not a necessity, will increase your chances of surviving this encounter.)

Finally, I cheat a little: I allow myself to run each of my characters solo through the quest reward sequences; so, by the time I got to D.E. level 2, each member of my party was about a level above where they should have been if playing the game straight through. If you find yourself stuck, or just want that extra "Umph!" to make things slightly easier: Go back to your last save before you freed the prisoners at the end of D.E. 1 (you DO keep a running trail of frequent saves, don't you?) and run each party member solo though the reward sequence and export, or save to separate games. Regroup, then slash your way to Conlan's son on level 2 and repeat. Should get you an extra level on most of your party.

The first time I did this battle, I had a full party of: Paladin, 4 Fighters and Thief/Illusionist. (The reason for so many fighters is that 3 of them were slated to dual over to other classes, but hadn't progressed far enough, yet.) Everyone was specializing, to the max extent possible, in bows (fighters were all bows+++). Everyone had regular arrows at the ready and acid or fire arrows available. Everyone was rested after the encounter in the cave at the top of the passage that leads down to the altar room, and game is SAVED at that point.

Prefight: IIRC, with everyone else at the top of the passageway, I took Sashii, my thief/Illusionist, down the passageway until she got spied by a troll then she runs like a banshee back up the passageway. At the top, she gets through the hole left in the ranks of the fighters and then turns to....

Round 1: cast web in the passage, as far up as possible without "holding" own party. (Summon monster would be much more effective way of blocking the passage, if you've got it.) Meanwhile, the first thing to appear at the bottom of the passage is a troll; and he gets crucified with a rain of arrows. One fighter switches to acid/fire arrow to finish him off in the next round (important), while the rest wait (very important) for the first priest(ess) to show.

Round 2: By this time, web is cast, which may slow down the trolls a little. A talonite (priestess or possibly priest) should show by now, and EVERYONE targets her. Sashii throws Aganazzar's scorcher at her, and if the troll from round 1 will take fire damage from this spell, then free up the fighter that would have finished up the troll and use him to also target the priestess: She needs to go down in this round, because getting held = death. (You should get a lot of collateral damage to trolls with A. Scorcher. Long narrow passages are what this spell is made for, so remember to "stock up" on these when you rest before this battle. Fireball would be great, too, but you may not have it, yet.) As soon as your round 2 combat actions are complete, retreat well back into the cave at top of the passage (out of sight of any casters who will certainly appear at the bottom of the passage.)

Round 3: Hopefully this round starts with 1 dead troll (out of maybe 6 who joined the initial charge) 1 dead talonite (out of 4) and a bunch (maybe 4 or five) angry trolls, some hurting and some held. After the group retreats well back into the cave, Sashii moves to the side, and any seriously hurt fighter moves to the back, of the group. Time to switch to acid/fire arrows if the fighters haven't already. The entire group targets one or two of the most badly wounded trolls as they emerge from the passageway, and Sashii throws another web at the mouth of the passageway, or targets Scorcher or flaming oil on the troll in the best position to extract the most collateral damage possible (beware of friendly fire.) If a talonite pops out of the passage, everyone (or enough to ensure a kill) targets her or, if the situation won't allow that, runs.

If enough trolls and priestesses get held, they will pop out one or two at a time, each one individually feeling the full wrath of the party. If things don't go this well, the party may need to fight a running engagement, possibly all the way back to the previous level (Level 1) and rest before re-engaging. Do NOT stand around within sight of talonite, unless s/he is alone (no other talonites) and things are going well enough that you can devote sufficient firepower to ensure a very quick kill. IIRC, things did not go well for me, in this respect, but the party recovered when Sashii managed to get off a few Scorchers that each fried about 4-5 trolls/talonites (I LOVE this spell!).

With my second time through, 3 things were different: 1.) I had imported Sashii, who was, by now, a journeyman (level 8) thief/mage with Fireball and Summon Monsters I at her disposal; 2.) there were only three characters in the party, including only one fighter, Druulf; and 3.) I had Bree, a bard, for whom I had bought "Bardic Horn of Valhalla."

After several reloads and changes of tactics, I got the following to work:

Pre-fight: Sashii hides and gets down passage just far enough to see first troll on altar, Bree moves up behind. Bree summons berserkers slightly to the right and Sashii cast summon monters slightly to the left of the bottom of the passageway. Both high-tail it up to Druulf, who is standing in the passage, about halfway between the cave and the altar room. The enemy runs to engage the summoned berserkers and fire beetles.

Round 1/2: Sashii cast web down passage, between the party and their summoned help. Druulf takes shot at anything that appears (especially talonites). Talonites, seeing fire beetles first, waste their holds on them: Excellent!

Round 3: Sashii and Bree stand side by side at top of web area and both cut loose with a double-barreled Scorcher at talonites, also toasting any trolls trying to come up the passage. Just behind, Druulf also shoots at talonites. (Ain't that funny: the tank standing BEHIND the magic users!) Berserker attention seems to be evenly divided between trolls and talonites: could be worse.

Round 4: Bree finds an opportunity to cast skull trap near talonites. Sashii casts another scorcher. Both magic users are careful not to harm berserkers.

Round 5: Bree casts her last scorcher at the farthest troll she can target without harming a berserker, while Sashii casts her last summon monsters, to replace all the fire beetles that the trolls have pulverized, hoping to take heat off of the berserkers, so they can finish off talonites. Both magic users have taken troll hits, so move behind Druulf.

Round 6: Druulf keeps aim on talonite, even though taking a pounding from troll. Bree casts magic missile on talonite. Sashii manuevers and then casts another Scorcher at a target down the passageway, so as to also nick the troll in front of Druulf. Last talonite (Yea!!) and berserker go down.

Round 7/8/9: The rest is mop up: Bree casts magic missile on troll pounding on Druulf. Druulf starts paying attention to him, too. Sashii casts fireball down the passage at the trolls still engaged with fire beetles (placing so as not to hurt beetles), then switches to acid arrows / magic missile to help pick off the almost dead trolls. The party is over.

Hope this helps.

Party On!

edited for spelling, clarity and content

[ 10-13-2002, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[Lord Brass]

Nice.

I suppose I should say something more than that so...

Sniping with 'Aganazzar's' is one of the more difficult skills to master. For the most part, its hard not to score some collateral damage on one of your characters when you cast it. Power to ya' NobleNick. [img]smile.gif[/img]

The easiest time I've ever had with this section of the game has to be one of the more successful times I've started a solo game. It just seeemed to me, that with only one character to play with, there wasn't the constant struggle of manœuvring multiple characters into favourable positions, and getting in each other's way because of it. Hit and run all the way.

[NobleNick]

You did this engagement with a solo party, Lord Brass?

More power to YOU !!

What class was the character?

I have found that some of the powerful magic that some don't use, for fear of friendly fire, is easier to control than folks think. I have practiced by fighting the same battle over and over, practicing where to place that fireball so that it will toast the enemies engaging my front line without singeing my tanks.

A. Scorcher is a bit harder, you're right, because once you cast it, the enemy controls the location of the far end of the flame path. But anticipating the enemies moves and correctly using his actions to help fry his own troops (especially 6 or more at a time!) brings me a perverse satisfaction I have not quite experienced with any other spell! Using the pause button and moving at risk members of the party away helps. One of my favorite techniques is to have my front line LINED up, with mage to the side and a little behind, so that she's not targeted. Then, when front line is engaged in melee, pop around the end of my line and fire scorcher straight down the the enemy front line. Snap! Crackle! Pop! .... Is that bacon I smell sizzling? with the right enemy (e.g. ice trolls) and geometry, you can extract damage approaching 100 hp with this spell.

Aganazzar's Scorcher is a real bargain, too. I can afford enough slots to carry 4 or 5 of 'em; whereas I can only afford to carry around 2 fireballs.

I try to be careful, but will not shy away from friendly fire if it solves my problem. For instance...

1.) I'll blow right through my own tank with Scorcher, if it is needed to take out an ogre that can get a critical hit on that same tank, or if I have a perfect line up that fries 6 of the enemy for 8 hp apiece: 8 hp lost on my tank in trade for 48 enemy hp lost = good trade.

2.) Also, once had about 8 cold wights attack my party, and after the first two rounds 6 of them were still alive and had my tank swamped. My two magic users cast fireball and skull trap. The skull trap was placed correctly, and damaged a couple of the otherwise uninjured wights. The fireball I placed close enough to ensure that every enemy took a hit. I misjudged and everyone in MY party also took hits; but....the fight was over. I toasted everyone in my party for 15 or so hp; BUT every cold wight was dead. About 50 friendly hp traded for 6 dead Cold Wights: Fair exchange! I could have lost LOTS more hp by being too cautious and letting, say, 3 wights live. Heh, heh, heh: Hit points are cheap -- Rest and repeat!

Party On!


[ 10-13-2002, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[CursedShadow]

Thanks, guys. Being somewhat limited in creativity, my party is rather typical:
F,F,R,F/T,C,M. I don't have any "hold" spells at this point. Typically I enter the narrow passage with my mage and try to fling a fire spell at the first troll that shows up and quickly retreat. Unfortunately, it seems to do little damage and before I know it, I am backed up to the bridge, eyeball deep in trouble. I use my cleric to throw a silence spell at the priestess's hoping to keep them from paralyzing me but inevitably, I am overwhelmed by the numbers. Would I be better trying to make my stand at the narrow passage in order to stem the troll tide?

[Cyril Darkcloud]

If you have a druid and a mage in your party, this can be a rather simple fight. I've had very good results here by sending a character to distract a troll and then dashing back up the passageway as web and spike growth are cast [if you have another mage, add grease* or a second web spell to effectively gaurantee that the entire group will be caught fast.] Casting an additional spike growth will take the talonites out very quickly. At this point, anything caught will be taking automatic damage from the spike growth every round and the mass of enemies is very vulnerable to both area effect spells [or oil of fiery burning] and selective missile fire -- especially if you target the talonites. Generally I have been able to get through this fight without any of my characters taking more than minimal damage, if that.

* Grease is one of those first level spells that can be very useful when combined with web or stinking cloud -- by slowing the movemnet of your enemies it forces them to spend more time within the area of effect and thus to have to make additional saving throws, making it more likely that they will suffer the effects of the higher level spell.

[Lord Brass]

Oil of Fiery Burning and Potions of Explosion can also do the trick (as can the flaming oil rounds you find earlier on). Bunch them up at the pass, and impede their movement as Cyril Darkcloud says then let loose. This is a slightly more expensive way of doing things as you don't know whether you'll get the opportunity to buy/find more Oils/Potions later. However, the multiple explosions destroys nearly any chance to cast a spell, and the fire damage really hurts the trolls.

I soloed this part with a Fighter/Mage/Thief. Three characters really when you divide XP over the classes. Still the easiest time I had of it though. Hold them up, snipe, run back, repeat. They broke past my perimeter, then chased the hell out of me, but I kept firing away at the Talonites as I saw them, used Horror to force the trolls back as they engaged me in melee, and after a protracted battle, it was all over.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Hmmmm... I be the odd one out. I HATE fighting in narrow alleyways, and it just causes me frustration. I prefer to do battle in an open space where I can flank the enemy.

For this battle, I use an invisible person to scout out the area and see the locations of the enemy. Once done, I send back the scout and send forth several summons( 5-6) to the frontline under the cover of the fog of war.

Then I boost my party and bumrush them in to the convergence point where summons and enemies meet. An archer will pause halfway to pelt the male Priest on the elevated platform to disrupt his spellcasting while my Mage hurls a Fireball to disrupt the other three enemy Priests as my Cleric follows up with a Silence 15' Radius spell.

The appetiser has been served. Time for the main course.

My Bard is singing as my Druid is casting multiple Static Charges in addition to several Spike Growths to further hinder the Priests. My Cleric is casting Prayer, Recitation, Bless, Curse and Skeletons to replace fallen summons.

My Paladin is at the frontline dishing out the pain and buffered by the summons.

Eventually, they all fall. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I fought this on HoF mode.

[Vassago]

I had no problem w/ my party of three (Ranger, Fighter/Thief and Druid). Due to my theiving skills, I had aquired 2 rings of freedom w/ my Ranger and Thief wore. I had my druid cast entangle just below the passageway and then again in the passageway. I equipped my Ranger w/ his bow and my Theif w/ his crossbow. Both of them hid in the shadows and then proceeded into the area. I had my Ranger and Theif attack the priest, which killed her instantly, then they directed their attention to the next one. After one more shot each, I had them retreat thru the opening and my druid cast spike growth to inflict additional damage w/ my characters assulted the creatures w/ ranged weapons. The dust settled and the spells expired and I was victorious.