When animals are attacked (by the U.S. government)

[Chewbacca]

Ah, the term "endangered species" takes a whole new meaning with Bush & Co in charge of things now doesn't?

Link

Weeks after a groundbreaking scientific study said naval sonar appears to be killing marine mammals, the Bush administration yesterday won House approval to use sonar wherever Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld sees fit. ***SNIP*** Negotiators from the House and Senate finished the bill at 2:15 a.m. yesterday. It runs to 712 pages of extremely complicated text, such as this bit from the part about marine mammals: "The term 'Level A harassment' means harassment described in subparagraph(A)(i) or, in the case of military readiness activity or scientific research activity described in subparagraph (B), harassment described in subparagraph (B)(i)." Members had about three hours to read the bill. To finish it, they would have had to take in about four pages per minute between the time it was released about dawn and debate began at midmorning.

Wow I am impressed! I had no idea so many of my representatives were speed reading geniuses! No wonder people voted for them! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Link

President Bush and the Defense Department won House approval Friday for easing some protections for endangered species and marine mammals. One provision in the $401 billion defense bill amends the Endangered Species Act to prohibit setting aside any more "critical habitat" - lands needed for species to recover - on military installations that already have a plan for managing natural resources. Another amends the Marine Mammal Protection Act to lower the threshold on what can be considered "harassment" of a marine mammal. Until now the law has prohibited anything annoying or potentially disturbing; the new standard would be anything threatening survival or reproduction. ***SNIP*** Congressional auditors last year found little evidence to support Bush administration claims that military training is hampered by environmental laws. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., who chairs the House Armed Services Committee, on Friday called the provisions "common sense environmental reforms allowing our troops to properly train." Not so, according to Karen Wayland of the Natural Resources Defense Council, an environmental group. "Exempting the Pentagon from these laws," she said Friday, "will allow the military to threaten whales, dolphins and other marine mammals with sonar and underwater explosives, and destroy the habitat of the endangered birds and mammals that live on the 25 million acres it controls across the country - with next to no environmental review."

How dare those congressional auditors find little evidence that military training is hampered by enviromental laws! They should know better! Bush & Co. are always right! We oughta round up those auditors as well as those loony enviromental-nuts and send them to re-education camp! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

From the first link:
"Does anybody trust Donald Rumsfeld to save the whales?" asked Gerald Leape, vice president of the National Environmental Trust. "This means ... more freedom for the Department of Defense to do whatever it wants and not be burdened by working through our nation's most important law to protect marine mammals."

Uh, hell no I don't trust him period! Every time I look at that guy or hear him speak, I know he's lying and hiding something. Dang bass. This sonar testing had been done in my backyard. Our people have done testing and provided proof to the government that the sonar was harming the mammals. Yet they don't care. It's more important to them to find ways to kill and destroy, than to preserve life. Well that's the way I see it. Peace. [img]smile.gif[/img]

i'm with you, GForce. one need look no further than the when (2am) and the how (712 page document referencing countless other legislation) to know that a) there was no real debate on the issues, and b) it was rubber stamped by bush's party.

[Timber Loftis]

Piece of shit assholes.

Arrrgggghhh, some days I'm so angry at the administration.... arrrrggghh!

Selfish idiots are running this country. They obviously can't think more than 5 minutes ahead of time. I'm all for taking reasonable steps to protect ourselves, but reasonable ended over a year ago -- about the time we went to a real country and made real war for imaginary reasons and gossamer "terrorist links" that turn out to be no more than ignorant oil-monket speculative twattle.

Erm, do I seem ? I guess I am.

[khazadman]

I don't give a rat's ass about these animals. I'm more interested in the defense of this country, which is Rumsfelds only job, not worrying about some damn fish or aquatic mammals. The safety of the American people should always come first for our government.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by khazadman: I don't give a rat's ass about these animals. I'm more interested in the defense of this country, which is Rumsfelds only job, not worrying about some damn fish or aquatic mammals. The safety of the American people should always come first for our government.

Yeah, righto. Don't forget # 1! Rape, pillage, and pave the planet for our own good. Damn Straight! It'd be nice if some day these animals got to hold YOUR fate in THEIR hand, now, wouldn't it.

I wouldn't be hitting you with such biting sarcasm if Rootin-tootin-Rummy and crew were really being wise in their actions. They're not, and we are no more safe than before. Their whole response is to grab a bunch of tanks and planes, go cruising around the planet willy-nilly in them, shoot a few darker-skinned folks, and claim victory. It's a shame, and we're dumb if we buy their load of BS.

[ 11-09-2003, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

i read a fascinating piece of fiction called "plague of angels" by sherri tepper ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books ).

one of the central ideas of the book is a future society who believes it is their manifest destiny to dominate and control nature. they have a process in place for the re-engineering of planets away from their "natural" state into a more "human-friendly" paved and built up state.

tepper is a bit preachy, but it paints of fascinating picture of "what if..." we followed the thinking you recommend to its natural conclusion, k-man.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by sultan: one of the central ideas of the book is a future society who believes it is their manifest destiny to dominate and control nature. they have a process in place for the re-engineering of planets away from their "natural" state into a more "human-friendly" paved and built up state.

I call this "here and now," or haven't you paid attention to government agencies like the Forestry Service and how they define their missions for the past 50 years?

hey, i agree with you timber. [img]smile.gif[/img]

i think a lot of people dont see the big picture of what we're doing. a thought exercise such as tepper's future society really hammers it home.

[dragon_lord]

Originally posted by khazadman: I'm more interested in the defense of this country

Defense against who? Terrorists? Last time i checked they didnt use subs. So why spend millions of dollars on an improved sonar system for defense against an enemy that doesnt exist? Or is it that they might exist in the future (got to watch out for china), so lets prepare now? Well I am sick of Governments continually playing on peoples fears, they have done it for 1000s of years and they will do it for another 1000 if we keep buying their BS. If Governments would spend 1/4 of what they spend on defense we wouldnt need to be afraid of that other guy. How about spending some of that defense budget money on the root causes of hatred/terrorim; a lack of understanding/prejudice (education - wake up John Howard!), injustices (israel/palestine conflict), religious tension (education/tolerance), government corruption, poverty, starvation etc.