Is it better to carry a gun or not?

[Neb]

Now this thread has been an important lesson, two things we have learned:

#1 Gun nuts will not ever admit that not having the right to bear arms is a good idea, nor will they ever agree that they can defend themselves some other way.

#2 The rest of us nuts will continue to rant about alternatives and the virtues of not everyone having easy access to guns anyway, but we'll be heavily ignored.

[Epona]

I think that's a bit harsh Neb - everyone's entitled to their opinion, and everyone is entitled to disagree with you if they so desire.

[Neb]

Not really. This is an impossible discussion. Neither side will ever budge from their viewpoints. So that's how it is. We continue to ramble about what we think is right and they about what they think is right, neither succeeds in changing any opinions.

[Epona]

But you shouldn't go into a discussion with the sole aim of changing everyone elses opinion - it's unrealistic and a bit arrogant (no offense intended).

[MILAMBER]

I currently own 2 firearms, and am in the process of getting another. Obviously, I don't see a problem with owning them.

I know our friend Avatar enjoys shooting the bow and arrow competitavely. I ask you, where is the difference between shooting bows and shooting rifles? Is archery a noble sport and shooting not? Both were initially created with the sole purpose of killing, yet exceptions are made in one instance and not the other. Why is that? I submit that shooting guns is no different then shooting a bow and arrow. Both can be dangerous in the hands of those lacking maturity and training.

[ 04-30-2002, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: MILAMBER ]

[Epona]

That's a good point Milamber. I'm considering giving archery a try sometime, but yep, a bow and arrow in the hands of an idiot is pretty dangerous. We have laws about guns and knives, I wonder if there are any about bows and arrows? Because if not, it's inconsist to say the least.

[Barry the Sprout]

Well, I personally am very strongly in favour of people carrying guns. As people have said, the right to defend yourself is your right! Whether you are defending yourself against one of the regular attackers on the street or one of the all too frequent teenage burglars. They think they can get something for nothing, well they should go out an get an education like a proper middle class person instead of languishing in poverty. Its a good job they want something for nothing in some respects - they haven't got anything to trade it for!

In a society where people are mostly peaceful it gives me a warm feeling to know I can kill wildlife at twenty paces, or intimidate my boss without having to work hard. And as for the people who say a gun adds more danger then I will point out a knife can just as easily kill someone. If you are really lucky you might even kill them from a distance with it, or while they are running away from your house. You can always hope. And children want to play with knives just as much as guns right? So we should ban them if we ban guns! And no one is seriously suggesting banning knives are they? Its not illegal to carry knives in public... oh wait... yes it is... sorry.

But anyway, these anti gun people then usually say things about the crime rate being lower in countries with gun resrictions. I say that the crime rate only *appears* to be lower. Over in those places people are stabbed to death in their beds as the criminals can't get guns. So the death is silent and no one hears about it! Obviously the crime rate is going to look lower in a country without firearms readily available, but that is deceptive. The firearms don't actually cause the problem, that much is plainly obvious.

So I like my guns. And if anyone tries to take them off of me they are infringing on a human right to be able to kill fellow people quickly and from a distance, and I will shoot them. Just like that guy on Ruby Ridge. A true hero in my book.

EDIT - I forgot to mention. We mostly need to protect ourselves because there are always going to be criminals. There is just a certain type of person who has a criminal leaning, no matter what situation they are living in and no matter what society condones as the norm. There is no way that these people would in any way change if society changed, they will always be criminals. That is the end of the matter as this statement is self evidently true. I should also point out that no one on this board would be like that. Even if you admitted to having committed a crime I wouldn't think you were one of these kind of horrible people, there was probably some kind of special circumstance surrounding your misdemeanour - completely unlike them. It would be offensive for me to say this about people who are actually here, obviously.

[ 04-30-2002, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Barry the Sprout ]

[/)eathKiller]

guns... hah.. we haven't surpassed those little things yet? Sheesh, when are we going to be getting into telekenetic weaponry already? Sheesh! Guns are good for a number of things, killing folks is one of them. WHy else would you own a gun, it is leverage. The gun makes you more powerfull than that person who doesnt... just like holding a boiling hot bucket of water with you... it's just leverage... in this day and age, people have gotten to the point that they will kill for a pair of shoes, such barbariens should be silenced but our governments do nothing but allow them to purchase arms... it's a great scale we must work to ballance you know... Guns serve a purpose, it is not always a good one.. but in the land of good and evil one has to decide just how much leverage they have... I don't carry a gun, personally, but I do keep a sharpened wooden knife bound to by upper arm at all times... this is so that if i am shot by any means i can fake injury and then deal enough suprise attack damage to either 1: kill the attacker or 2: Remove their weapon giving ME leverage...

that's all it is...

leverage...

weapons... bah...

the day Death turns in his Scythe will be the day he buys an uzi...

[Azred]

Originally posted by Neb: Now this thread has been an important lesson, two things we have learned: #1 Gun nuts will not ever admit that not having the right to bear arms is a good idea, nor will they ever agree that they can defend themselves some other way. #2 The rest of us nuts will continue to rant about alternatives and the virtues of not everyone having easy access to guns anyway, but we'll be heavily ignored.

hmm? What? Did you say something? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

As stated before, I don't own any guns and probably never will. However, I will always defend the rights of gun owners to own their guns. Besides, I can defend myself quite nicely. [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Neb: Not really. This is an impossible discussion. Neither side will ever budge from their viewpoints. So that's how it is. We continue to ramble about what we think is right and they about what they think is right, neither succeeds in changing any opinions.

Originally posted by Epona: But you shouldn't go into a discussion with the sole aim of changing everyone elses opinion - it's unrealistic and a bit arrogant (no offense intended).

Debate is never about changing someone's mind; it is about presenting points of view. Trying to change someone else's mind leads to distortion of facts, personal attacks, inflammatory remarks, etc.

Beleive me, I wish we didn't have the nutballs out there against whom guns are necessary, but life just isn't that rosy. Ballistic projectile weapons are a fact of existence; removing them from easy access will never remove them from grey or black market access and certainly won't remove the knowledge of how to manufacture guns; anyone with the proper maching tools and training can do it.
In the end, no gun law, no matter how restrictive, has ever prevented anyone from being able to buy a gun from someone willing to sell it.

Originally posted by MILAMBER: I know our friend Avatar enjoys shooting the bow and arrow competitavely. I ask you, where is the difference between shooting bows and shooting rifles? Is archery a noble sport and shooting not? Both were initially created with the sole purpose of killing, yet exceptions are made in one instance and not the other. Why is that? I submit that shooting guns is no different then shooting a bow and arrow. Both can be dangerous in the hands of those lacking maturity and training.

Quite right! Archery is great! I plan on purchasing a bow in the future, myself. It is a shame, though, that there are no Kyudo schools in my area.... [img]graemlins/verysad.gif[/img]

[Neb]

Originally posted by Epona: But you shouldn't go into a discussion with the sole aim of changing everyone elses opinion - it's unrealistic and a bit arrogant (no offense intended).

The point of a debate is to present arguments and proof that your opinion is the better.... And thereby making other people agree with it. There's really not much point to just ranting your views at people.