Is it better to carry a gun or not?

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by Spelca: quote: Originally posted by Azred: re: guns and personal safety. ... Follow the link to the report; you may see the numbers for yourself. There are many causes of death that claim more lives than guns. Would anyone suggest we take away automobiles? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

No, BUT you need a licence to drive a car, and you have to go through a medical check-up before you get it, and a first aid course, etc (at least where I live). And drivers get stopped regularly by policemen to check their driverse licence. And also cars get checked my mechanics. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]You also need a license to carry. You can buy a car without a license just like you can buy a gun without one. People carrying firearms get their permits checked by the police also. Do you get your car fixed if it's not broken?

[Donut]

Originally posted by dragonwolf: all through this tread we have all read good points on ether side and have really gotten nowhere.i am not trying to convince anyone but i will tell you what i see everyday at work ppl who have guns and use them properally dont have to worry about criminals coming into there homes and beat them up or steal ANYTHING from them because the criminal doesnt want a new hole placed squarley into there forhead by a 9mm or .45 cal

Can you explain the procedure that the burglar goes through to discover if there is a gun on the property. Is there some central registration office that burglars go to prior to performing the burglary or does the home owner put a sign up outside the house?

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by Azred: quote: Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by Azred: re: guns and personal safety. These numbers come directly from the National Vital Statistics Report released on 9 October 2001 for the calendar year 2000. Of course, these numbers are US statistics only. Total number of deaths due to injury by a firearm: 28,117

Total number of firearm related deaths in the UK for 1998/99 was 49. In the vernacular - do the Math![/QUOTE]Let me brush the dust off my math degree and I will. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

Would that we could all live somewhere with such a low instance of gun-related deaths.[/QUOTE]A much truer analysis would be to compare murders by populus.

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by Neb: quote: Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: I've said it before, and I'll say it again with the hopes someone will want to hear it. YOU CARRY THE GUN ON YOUR PERSON AT ALL TIMES! When it is not possible to carry the gun for any reason, THEN it is locked up. IF THE GUN IS IN YOUR IMMEDIATE CONTROL THEN KIDS CAN'T GET IT AND YOU CAN USE IT IN A PINCH! Is the concept understood now?

So, that means that if you're asleep and someone breaks into your house you've slept with the gun in your hand? [img]tongue.gif[/img] Sorry Sir K, but in that case your idea doesn't work.[/QUOTE]Yes! Right next to you Neb! That's where it should be. Within reach an in your control, even when you're asleep. Why do you have a hard time believing this? Where's the problem?

[ 05-02-2002, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Sir Kenyth ]

[Donut]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: quote: Originally posted by Azred: quote: Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by Azred: re: guns and personal safety. These numbers come directly from the National Vital Statistics Report released on 9 October 2001 for the calendar year 2000. Of course, these numbers are US statistics only. Total number of deaths due to injury by a firearm: 28,117

Total number of firearm related deaths in the UK for 1998/99 was 49. In the vernacular - do the Math![/QUOTE]Let me brush the dust off my math degree and I will. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

Would that we could all live somewhere with such a low instance of gun-related deaths.[/QUOTE]A much truer analysis would be to compare murders by populus.[/QUOTE]Sorry Sir K, I don't understand your meaning.

[MILAMBER]

Originally posted by Neb: For the "Bows are legal, so guns should be too" stuff: #1 With one pull of a trigger and a pointed gun you can kill someone. With a bow just a small gust of wind can prevent you from making a kill, or even a hit. It is FAR easier to kill someone with a gun. #2 It's easier to walk around with a concealed gun than it is to walk around with a concealed bow, even when dismantled it fills quite a bit. #3 Bows are used almost exclusively for sport and I have yet to hear of anyone killing anyone else with a bow and arrow. Killings with guns, on the other hand, we hear about almost every day. And Taliesin, sorry if my comment seems haughty or insulting, but that's just my view of the world, I've mostly encountered uncivilized, crude and foolish people so far. It would please me a LOT to be proven wrong, and of course it differs from society to society. IW, a small society in it's own right, is certainly not suffering from a majority of idiots and a minority of clever people.

Dude, did you read Epona's post?

Oh well I do know someone who as a kid was shot in the eye with an arrow fired from a bow by one of his mates when they were 'mucking about' - he didn't die, but it was bloody messy.

Just cause you've never heard of something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Also, nobody was saying they are the same, just that they should be in the same category.

As far as accuracy is concerned, Avatar was telling us in another thread how he is more accurate at 100 yards then any of us could dream to be at the same range. I believe him as well. Since the advent of compound bows, bows can be every bit as lethal as a gun.

I wish logic worked the way you seem to be applying it. I've never heard of bows being dangerous therefore they aren't. I've never heard of them being used for anything other then hunting therefore they aren't. Unfortunately, your ignorance didn't save Epona's friend from being shot.

My basis for arguement is a comparison based entirely upon the intent at creation of these weapons. They were created for the same purpose exactly. Don't take me out of context. If you reply to this post, reply to the points I've addressed and don't change the focus to something you are more comfortable talking about. Thanks [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-02-2002, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: MILAMBER ]

[Azred]

Originally posted by Donut: I know that these debates never change people's point of view and I know that there isn't a cats chance in hell that gun control will ever be introduced in the US. But at least we should get our facts right.

But then how could I present my illogical and/or emotional arguments if I have to get my facts straight? Can't I just try and scare you into my opinion or be really belligerent and hope you simply give in? [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by Donut:

Would that we could all live somewhere with such a low instance of gun-related deaths.

A much truer analysis would be to compare murders by populus.[/qb][/QUOTE]Sorry Sir K, I don't understand your meaning.[/QB][/QUOTE]

I misread. I thought you were comparing murder rates. In that case, a true statistical analysis would have to calculate the countries murders relationally to a set population number.

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by Azred: quote: Originally posted by Donut: I know that these debates never change people's point of view and I know that there isn't a cats chance in hell that gun control will ever be introduced in the US. But at least we should get our facts right.

But then how could I present my illogical and/or emotional arguments if I have to get my facts straight? Can't I just try and scare you into my opinion or be really belligerent and hope you simply give in? [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]*Looks hopeful*

Does that work?

[Donut]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: I misread. I thought you were comparing murder rates. In that case, a true statistical analysis would have to calculate the countries murders relationally to a set population number.

In 1992 the hand gun murder rate per 100,000 people

USA 5.28
Britain 0.06

This was the year before the banning of hand guns in the UK

[ 05-02-2002, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]