Chemotropic Illusion

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Epona: Mmmmmm, please don't take this the wrong way guys, I mean this in a friendly way [img]smile.gif[/img] I find this whole thing very interesting. I am an atheist. I have been for most of my life. Yorick knows that, yet we have never had an arguement about it that I recall, if we did, it certainly never turned out bitter like this. Sometimes I think people ask for the reactions they get [img]smile.gif[/img] All sides, whatever your beliefs, it is worth practising a little respect for others even if they do not agree with you. [img]smile.gif[/img]

No we have never had an argument over religion. Never. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[caleb]

Yea you could see it that way. Thats the problem with occams razor The simplest answer is different in everyones mind.

[ 06-20-2002, 02:14 AM: Message edited by: caleb ]

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Leonis quote: Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: But of course our own personal experience counts for little, since it is more likely according to Occam’s razor that rather than for example receiving a vision from god, you are in fact under a chemotropic illusion, and that it is not independently verifiable and provable and therefore unscientific.

And sorry I did not imply common belief = truth, rather that the implication is that not all who believe in God are suffering chemotropic illusions.

As I said, I can accept that people arrive at beliefs other than my own by way of rational, logical and intelligent means. Why do you have such a hard time accepting that anyone with a differing opinion to you may also be rational, logical and intelligent?[/QUOTE]Leonis,

Do you know what I think? I think that Occam's razor actually supports the existence of God.

The principal follows that whichever scenario has the least unproven assumptions is correct. (The simpler the better)

Say there is a room of 10,000 people, who all 'feel Gods presence'.

The scenario of God existing is one unproven assumption.
To suggest all 10,000 are experiencing mass delusion relys on 10,000 unproven assumptions does it not? We are talking about indviduals. One must individually assume each person is seperately having a chemotropic hallucination.

That's 10,000 unproven assumptions verses one - That God was in the room.

Go Occam!

Try it for evolution theory verses creation theory.

For Creation theory, there is one 'unproven ussumption'.

The existence of a creator. The rest we already see. Species contained development, erosion, tectonic plate shifting etc.

For evolution we have mutations (1), the universe being old enough to support the accepted evolutionary path (2), life spontaneously forming in a warm pond (3) the accepted evolutionary path - as opposed to rejected hypotheticals, that is monkeys went to the water, instead of the land as previously believed (4) - all of which are unproven assumptions.

So evolution theory has four unproven assumptions, while creationism has one.

I believe Occam's razor would actually support creationism, as the theory with the least number of unproven assumptions is preferred.

Am I out of my tree Leonis?

Cheers

Yorick[/QUOTE]Hmm, let me think, 'Out of your tree', that's a tough one that is...
[img]tongue.gif[/img]
There are a lot of theories/lines of reason that can be turned around to prove any side of the argument. Good point. But I wanna get back to the tree thing... Now, which tree are we talking about here? Is it deciduous? Just how tall is it? Are you wearing ground or tree camo gear? Where is this blasted tree anyway?

[Neb]

Originally posted by caleb: Yea you could see it that way. Thats the problem with occams razor The simplest answer is different in everyones mind.

That's the problem with everything, really, it's different to everyone's mind [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by caleb: Yea you could see it that way. Thats the problem with occams razor The simplest answer is different in everyones mind.

Well said. We all have different mental processes and different experiences, different perceptions. Good one Caleb. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

That said though, we can find others "on our wavelength".

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Leonis: Hmm, let me think, 'Out of your tree', that's a tough one that is... [img]tongue.gif[/img] There are a lot of theories/lines of reason that can be turned around to prove any side of the argument. Good point. But I wanna get back to the tree thing... Now, which tree are we talking about here? Is it deciduous? Just how tall is it? Are you wearing ground or tree camo gear? Where is this blasted tree anyway?

"Hey Christmas tree......excuse me but I NEED it!"

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Neb: quote: Originally posted by caleb: Yea you could see it that way. Thats the problem with occams razor The simplest answer is different in everyones mind.

That's the problem with everything, really, it's different to everyone's mind [img]tongue.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]No it's not. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

*munches popcorn while sitting in the audience*

[caleb]

YOU THERE! Show me your ticket stub or leave the theater [img]tongue.gif[/img]