London riots

[Azred]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior It's very different in England. Here in the US rioters would be scared of getting shot by police. In the UK cops don't carry guns. I think if this happen in NY right now the military would be involved already and everyone would be locked down. Also, these are kids who loiter around the streets all day and night. In the UK curfews aren't enforced like in the US. If you're walking the streets at night with your mates cops won't stop you unless you're commiting a crime. In the USA you will be stopped if you look under 18 I think? And these people have no cause - they're just hooligans looking for free tv's and destruction. How do I know? Because i'm ashamed to say those are the people I used to hang with growing up. Out of their minds teenagers.

Sometimes...even the police riot and loot here. There were some New Orleans police officers who were sentenced for looting in the wake of Katrina.

Yes, there are many city ordinances against teenagers being out late at night, especially while school is in session. This means they just congregate inside somewhere and get into trouble that way.

It's a shame that those people have no better outlet for their frustration than to riot. Rioting citizens is a clear sign of severe problems in society.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally Posted by Azred [color=lightgreen] There were some New Orleans police officers who were sentenced for looting in the wake of Katrina.

Some were charged and acquited - others suspended. I don't believe any NOPD were actually convicted and sentenced for looting.

AFAIK, there was only one suit filed against NOPD officers for looting and that resulted in an acquital - that was in 2006 IIRC. Two other instances of police looting, including the alleged theft of cars from a Cadillac dealership, may still pending. I think the car theft case might have been squashed as the NOPD Police claimed the cars were used for patrols in the storm aftermath.

There was a conviction (just recently) of 5 New Orleans police officers in the Danziger Bridge shooting which resulted in the shooting deaths of two men.

I still follow some of the news from NOLA but not a lot, so it's possible I missed something on the NOPD looting cases. Wouldn't surprise me if there were cases that I missed. NOPD is one of the most corrupt police departments in the country.

Always amazes me to listen to Ray "The Befuddled" Nagin when he gets on TV from time to time.

[johnny]

Well, we seen it in France, where riots started after two (criminal) teenagers that were being chased by the police had the brilliant idea to hide inside a powerunit and electrocuted themselves, and now it was England's turn, again after the death of someone that was definitely never gonna get an award for finding the cure for cancer, now i'm just waiting for our turn, which is only a matter of time.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by T-D-C And now for something from the lighter side of life http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/

LOL! That's how ya make lemonade outa life's lemons!

[Azred]

Originally Posted by Micah Foehammer Some were charged and acquited - others suspended. I don't believe any NOPD were actually convicted and sentenced for looting. AFAIK, there was only one suit filed against NOPD officers for looting and that resulted in an acquital - that was in 2006 IIRC. Two other instances of police looting, including the alleged theft of cars from a Cadillac dealership, may still pending. I think the car theft case might have been squashed as the NOPD Police claimed the cars were used for patrols in the storm aftermath. There was a conviction (just recently) of 5 New Orleans police officers in the Danziger Bridge shooting which resulted in the shooting deaths of two men. I still follow some of the news from NOLA but not a lot, so it's possible I missed something on the NOPD looting cases. Wouldn't surprise me if there were cases that I missed. NOPD is one of the most corrupt police departments in the country. Always amazes me to listen to Ray "The Befuddled" Nagin when he gets on TV from time to time.

Perhaps the two stories had merged in the back of my mind. Still...as you note, they are examples of a police department not living up to our expectations.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Azred Sometimes...even the police riot and loot here. There were some New Orleans police officers who were sentenced for looting in the wake of Katrina. Yes, there are many city ordinances against teenagers being out late at night, especially while school is in session. This means they just congregate inside somewhere and get into trouble that way. It's a shame that those people have no better outlet for their frustration than to riot. Rioting citizens is a clear sign of severe problems in society.

Yeah, I know America has had some riots. They're usually quelled pretty quick though. Those immigration riots more recently iirc. Not sure if cops looting aren't just dirty cops.

I think riots can be a good thing. Doomed is a country that is too scared to fight back. And as we've seen on TV this year, they serve as a quick way to get the attention of your government. It's just here the UK these riots don't seem to be about anything, lol. Nobody is protesting a regime, or demanding freedom that they are denied. Like I said, it mostly consists now of an underclass of kids just who are bored. More stupid are the reporters who are taking them seriously. One reporter stopped a rioting teenager to ask him what the purpose of the whole thing was. The kid, seeing a camera and mic decided he better say something other than "The purpose is to steal stuff and fuc shit up". Instead, he said something like "We're tired of being pushed down by the government, tired of being told we are nothing". This kid was like 16. Wtf? I guess anything can sound noble when you make it about "Working for the man".

I don't think kids get into the same kinda trouble congregating at their friends house with parents home than they do loitering on the streets en masse until 2am with no supervision. Even if they're @ friends house and the parents were absent, the most they can do is steal or mess up that house, as opposed to mugging people on the street or breaking into stores. They're still contained in one private property instead of being loose on the streets doing god knows what.

Of course there are exceptions, different cities, laws, states make for good and bad outcomes, but generally I have found curfews play an excellent part in skipping lots of the bullshit in the evolution of kids.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Azred What color is the sky on your planet? Here on Earth the sky is blue. The Tea Party has three problems at this time: 1) insufficient membership, 2) most of them are new so they have no political clout, and 3) no formal organization through which to further their goals. There are currently no theocrats in Washington, D.C. Tea Party folks do not support the Nanny State; quite the contrary, if given the ability to do so many of them would quickly and gladly dismantle the Nanny State in its entirety. Now....back to the riots in London. I don't live in England so I can't say for certain if these folks really have anything about which to riot. I can't think that life there is in such a poor state that only one action kicks off a riot. They aren't being oppressed overtly...they aren't told how to dress or what to eat...they aren't forced to listen to or read only government propaganda...there aren't people starving by the thousands while some form of aristocracy blithely ignores their suffering...etc. So why are people rioting? Because police shot a guy? If that were cause for a riot we would have them all the time here.

On the planet I live on the Tea "party" is a Republican strategy that's worked brilliantly, and maybe unintentionally, to weed out the soundbite simpletons and unsavory types embroiled in angry fervor.

Meanwhile the real libertarian-leaning candidates like Ron Paul and Gary Johnson simply stick with the "R" besides their names.

More towards the topic would be a discussion of the ineffectiveness of using anger to confront problems with solutions which require patience and caution.

[Azred]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca On the planet I live on the Tea "party" is a Republican strategy that's worked brilliantly, and maybe unintentionally, to weed out the soundbite simpletons and unsavory types embroiled in angry fervor. Meanwhile the real libertarian-leaning candidates like Ron Paul and Gary Johnson simply stick with the "R" besides their names. More towards the topic would be a discussion of the ineffectiveness of using anger to confront problems with solutions which require patience and caution.

I don't think the Tea Party has anything to do with Republicans, per se, especially since Repubs are part of the problem that make Tea Party folks upset. I cannot deny that Tea Party people do themselves no favors when they show up with misspelled signs--if you are going to venture out into public, for pity's sake at least make sure your protests are legible and don't look like a kindergartener did them.

I have liked Ron Paul for quite some time. He is the one candidate the Republicans should have fronted for President--he stays in the party out of loyalty and he wants to change it from within--but the RNC has never taken him seriously...because he would make them change their ways. It is just a shame that he'll never win, a fact about which I am realistic.

Anger never solves a problem, except in only the most short-sighted way and those usually cause more problems in the long run. Although there are times/places in which rioting is necessary...this is not one of those times.

[SpiritWarrior]

Problem is the lines are blurred. Many see the tea-party as a direct offshoot of the Republican Party - and from observation they are the craziest, most extreme parts of the party. After all, their most famous speakers and leaders are all Republican.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally Posted by Azred Perhaps the two stories had merged in the back of my mind. Still...as you note, they are examples of a police department not living up to our expectations.

Actually the NOPD TOTALLY lived up to my expectations. ROTFL

After seeing them in action before Katrina, I expected them to be ignorant, arrogant, corrupt, and lazy. Nothing that happened during or immediately after Katrina changed my pov.

yeah yeah I know broad brush generalization .... lol