Getting to know youuuuuu...

[Ilander]

My friend Trevor did that, Dave...he was eating chicken, and chewed up his cheek, and wasn't able to open his mouth properly for three days...It's an unpleasant situation.

[Dave_the_quack]

But a good way to lose weight I suppose... heh [img]smile.gif[/img]
Im hoping the numbness goes away quicksmart, its lunch time dammit. And Geoff and Karens famous Sandwich shop closes in 30 mins... ARRRGH!

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Dave_the_quack: LOL as for the hands down your pants comment... well... basically I was insinuating that it is very unlikely for a gay man to hit on a straight man. The reason being, as soon as a gay guy meets a straight guy, the straight guy feels the sudden urge to proclaim his heterosexuality... and why on earth would a gay guy hit on a straight guy when he knows there is no chance? Heh... I would use the "its the same as a guy hitting on a lesbian" line, but unfortunately, its a bad example cos guys love to hit on lesbians lol.

What about you proclaiming your homosexuality in your intro thread? I have been wondering why that was necessary. Please dont get me wrong, I have no problem with you or anybody else for that matter, I have just heard that statement before and I wonder why it is even an issue, when sometimes we meet gay guys that are "raging", like yourself. How are we suppose to know your intentions when you wear your personal life on your sleeve like that?

[Dave_the_quack]

Touche, LK. As for my intro thread, I have found from past experiences that it is easier for me say that im gay at the very beginning rather than it coming up later. I know you may or not agree with this, but, in my defense, the reason is that people judge me straight away rather than get to know me, like me, then once they find out they choose not to talk to me any longer. This way I find that those that wish to talk to me in the first place do not stop talking to me over trivial things like sexuality. And those that dont associate with gays and lesbians stay away, and I dont have to deal with the anguish of not being accepted by those whom I once considered friends. Does that make sense?

As for wearing my personal life on my sleeve... I dont see how telling you my sexual preference is doing that at all... It is just another description of me, nothing more. I would relate wearing my personal life on my sleeve by telling everyone (if I was a hetero) about that "girl that i nailed last week", etc etc. Why is it not the same for gays? Unless, the quote you were referring to is not the one you mean about too much info sharing.

It is an issue because some people MAKE it an issue. Ive had cases where i havent said it straight up, and then later on it has come up and I have been labelled a "liar". For what reason I dont know, but meh, that is why.

My intentions are no more obvious or discreet than anyone elses, are they?

Sorry if this doesnt make sense or if it repeats itself... lack of sleep is detrimental to sane posting.

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Dave_the_quack: Touche, LK. Not necessary. As for my intro thread, I have found from past experiences that it is easier for me say that im gay at the very beginning rather than it coming up later. But how would it come up unless you let it? I could see it in the "Current Events" forum, I suppose. I know you may or not agree with this, but, in my defense, the reason is that people judge me straight away rather than get to know me, like me, then once they find out they choose not to talk to me any longer. This way I find that those that wish to talk to me in the first place do not stop talking to me over trivial things like sexuality. And those that dont associate with gays and lesbians stay away, and I dont have to deal with the anguish of not being accepted by those whom I once considered friends. Does that make sense? Yes, it makes sense. It just seems your coming off defensive right from the start, which puts me (us?) in an uncomfortable position right from the start. Simply observing peoples attitudes and replies to "certian" topics would tell you that same info instead of taking my view/feelings for granted. As for wearing my personal life on my sleeve... I dont see how telling you my sexual preference is doing that at all... It is just another description of me, nothing more. Not to me. Sexuality is very personal to me, and your preferance is your business. Not mine. IMHO I would relate wearing my personal life on my sleeve by telling everyone (if I was a hetero) about that "girl that i nailed last week", etc etc. Why is it not the same for gays? Unless, the quote you were referring to is not the one you mean about too much info sharing. It is an issue because some people MAKE it an issue. Ive had cases where i havent said it straight up, and then later on it has come up and I have been labelled a "liar". For what reason I dont know, but meh, that is why. Well, how much information I tell my friends here at IW, or anywhere else on the internet for that matter, depends on how personal I have gotten with them about my "real" life, and the context of the forum/topic/thread. You telling us right off the bat about your sexual life, on a forum mostly about gaming, seems like you making it an issue with total strangers. My intentions are no more obvious or discreet than anyone elses, are they? I think you know my answer here. Sorry if this doesnt make sense or if it repeats itself... lack of sleep is detrimental to sane posting. I am sorry as well, for carrying on about it. I have had chats, post-replies, conversations, with other "raging" homosexuals and the like, and hear your "defense" alot. I can absolutaly understand disclosing personal information like that after getting to know us even a little more, or by PMing perticular members you have become "personal" friends with. Or, in a forum that is all about "lifestyles" or something. I like you fine. I think you have actually brought a new "color" to the forum, and I like it. Please dont get the wrong idea from my questioning and such. I am just an inquisitive guy, with a big mouth.

[ 09-10-2004, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: LordKathen ]

[Dave_the_quack]

I dont think its wise if I reply, it will look even more defensive and I dont want that. Sorry if I have put anyone else off. It was never my intention. I feel like a big fat poo right now. But meh, what can you do? Sorry, ill tone it all right down.

Meanwhile, this retard right here doesnt know how to put my sig from LK up.. can someone PM me some step by step info? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Animal]

Originally posted by Dave_the_quack: It is an issue because some people MAKE it an issue. My intentions are no more obvious or discreet than anyone elses, are they?

So then why bring it up in the first place, unless you feel it's an issue?

Nobody asks questions here, nobody cares whether you are straight, gay, married, single, young, old, etc... So why make such an issue out of it? We here at IW wouldn't have.

[Aerich]

Originally posted by LordKathen: quote: Originally posted by Dave_the_quack: LOL as for the hands down your pants comment... well... basically I was insinuating that it is very unlikely for a gay man to hit on a straight man. The reason being, as soon as a gay guy meets a straight guy, the straight guy feels the sudden urge to proclaim his heterosexuality... and why on earth would a gay guy hit on a straight guy when he knows there is no chance? Heh... I would use the "its the same as a guy hitting on a lesbian" line, but unfortunately, its a bad example cos guys love to hit on lesbians lol.

What about you proclaiming your homosexuality in your intro thread? I have been wondering why that was necessary. Please dont get me wrong, I have no problem with you or anybody else for that matter, I have just heard that statement before and I wonder why it is even an issue, when sometimes we meet gay guys that are "raging", like yourself. How are we suppose to know your intentions when you wear your personal life on your sleeve like that? [/QUOTE]Well, gee, I hate to turn this all serious, but I really want to chip in my two cents. Dave doesn't want to reply, but I'll present my viewpoint, which hopefully will correspond with some of the points he might wish to make. I'll state right off the top, Dave, that you may have taken Lord K's post too hard, too sensitively, if you will. I interpret its tone as "questioning and in the pursuit of knowledge", not "subtly accusatory."

**Now switching from conversational mode to "soapbox."**

I saw nothing strange about Dave stating his "raging homosexuality" in his opening post. Considering the nature of the thread, which was an invitation to let people know who you are, it was quite appropriate. It was also open and honest, and I respect his courage; it's also a credit to the forum that someone feels comfortable enough to say something so personal. I didn't feel like it put me on the defensive or put me off, whatever his motives. I interpreted the statement as (I believe) it was intended; to tell us of an integral part of who he is, much like others have said they are students or parents.

Also take into account the nature of this type of communication. All we have are words on a screen. While in "conversation", we don't have any visual cues. Thus, no one can really tell what makes another person uncomfortable. In that sense, it's good for Dave, or anyone else with certain sensitivities, to give a hint right out. It acts as a heads-up, and people are less likely to give offense accidentally. If it is defensive, so what? I myself (usually in the CE forum) am pretty forthright about what bothers me and about what my stance is. Most of that is trying to convince other people with logic, clarify the issue, or offer another perspective; however, it also serves to give others an idea of what may offend me - in that sense some of my posts have been somewhat defensive.

Gays often face the same type of challenges in society as ethnic minorities; hostility or intolerance that may be based on a personal characteristic (one that I believe cannot be changed, Michael Jackson notwithstanding), not on the person himself/herself. One way to deal with such potential problems (or one's own perceptions or psychological hangups) is to be proud and open about who and what one is.

So in the context of this subject and this thread, Dave, I certainly did not find your declaration offensive or off-putting in any way. Even if we met face-to-face and you said it right out, I might think it a little odd, but nothing more. It's not a big deal to me, and I definitely understand your stated reasons for doing so. I don't feel you have to "tone down" anything you've posted to date. You and everybody else have the right to post whatever and however you want to, subject only to the discretion of the mods, according to the terms of posting.

Edit: because I can't type and mentally grammar-check at the same time. And because I wanted to address Animal's post.

Don't forget that Dave hasn't been here that long. He doesn't know how exactly we will react, and he wants to be accepted for who he is; and if there is any rejection based on his sexual preferences (not that I believe there has been yet or ever will be), it's better that it happen at the beginning when he's mentally prepared for it and hasn't made any "friends" yet that might turn on him- that's the reason why it's an issue now.

[ 09-11-2004, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[Dave_the_quack]

Originally posted by Animal: So then why bring it up in the first place, unless you feel it's an issue? Nobody asks questions here, nobody cares whether you are straight, gay, married, single, young, old, etc... So why make such an issue out of it? We here at IW wouldn't have.

Originally posted by LordKathen: What about you proclaiming your homosexuality in your intro thread? I have been wondering why that was necessary.

Just repeating what Aerich said.... to the both of ya, did you notice the topic of this thread? I know its gone a bit off topic, but, having said that, I did say it when this thread was completely on track with the topic title. Thats all. Being gay is a big part of who I am, and in a "getting to know you" post... I would have thought it totally appropriate (if i so wished it) to divulge this information.

Originally posted by LordKathen: How are we suppose to know your intentions when you wear your personal life on your sleeve like that? [/QB]

I highly doubt that me saying that Im gay is less or more personal than you saying you have MS or depression. I must stress that I DEFINATELY mean no offense, but I cant see the difference here. Can you?

Originally posted by LordKathen: But how would it come up unless you let it? I could see it in the "Current Events" forum, I suppose.

I really find this quote a bit... well... i dunno. Strange. How could it not come up considering some of the topic titles in here? I would consider it having to hide something about me that I normally dont hide if I would have to just simply not comment on things such as "who is the best looking NPC" etc.

Yes, it makes sense. It just seems your coming off defensive right from the start, which puts me (us?) in an uncomfortable position right from the start. Simply observing peoples attitudes and replies to "certian" topics would tell you that same info instead of taking my view/feelings for granted.

As far as im concerned, I only started getting defensive from the beginning of your other post. The rest of my conversations with everyone have been purely light hearted. Im sorry if you took them in any other way, but thats not necessarily my fault, is it?

You telling us right off the bat about your sexual life, on a forum mostly about gaming, seems like you making it an issue with total strangers.

LOL I hardly consider the "general discussion" forum on this website to be mainly about gaming. I know you said mostly, but still, general discussion (as far as i am concerned) is just that, general discussion, much like what is taking place right now

I like you fine. I think you have actually brought a new "color" to the forum, and I like it. Please dont get the wrong idea from my questioning and such. I am just an inquisitive guy, with a big mouth.

Thanks LK. I think your a top bloke yourself.

Originally posted by Aerich: I'll state right off the top, Dave, that you may have taken Lord K's post too hard, too sensitively, if you will. I interpret its tone as "questioning and in the pursuit of knowledge", not "subtly accusatory."

I must admit that sensitive Dave definately took it in the latter sense, but I knew (or probably hoped [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) that LK didnt mean to offend, because he has remained so nice throughout my short time here spent at IW.

Originally posted by Aerich: I interpreted the statement as (I believe) it was intended; to tell us of an integral part of who he is, much like others have said they are students or parents.

That was my intention, Im glad you see that [img]smile.gif[/img]


Aerich was also correct when he said that I dont really know anyone here, and how they would take my sexuality. Its hard to speak for a whole community when saying "We here at IW wouldn't have (made it an issue)", youd be very suprised. When you know parents that have said to their homosexual sons and daughters "it would be easier for us to deal with if you had terminal cancer than for you to tell us you were gay", I find it equally and easily feasible for strangers to take the same horrible stance.

Anyways, Sorry this is such an uber long post... Its just there was a lot of things I wanted to address. And I would just like to say thankyou Aerich, because you have made this whole thread a lot more comfortable once again. Your definately ok in my books

edit, just fixing up long post [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 09-11-2004, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Dave_the_quack ]

[Melusine]

I could write a lengthy reply of my own but Aerich has put it so unbelievably well that I can simply say: I agree with everything he said.
Stop making a big issue of this, already, why don't we? In the beginning the inquiries came across as merely interested and curious, but now they're leaning towards deliberate misunderstanding or misinterpretation with a hint of condemnation (not saying people condemn the homosexuality, mind, just the fact that Dave *dares* to mention it at an early stage). There is nothing strange or in-your-face or illogical about stating your sexual preferences in a topic that is all about getting people to know each other better. Dave has had actual experience of people's reactions towards his preference, so I think he knows best whether to be upfront about it or not to mention it at the start.
Hmm, this turned out lengthier than strictly necessary... I'll shut up now.