Election Question

[Firestormalpha]

Now you're assuming I watch Fox news?


really annoying when people make assumptions

[wellard]

Originally Posted by Firestormalpha Now you're assuming I watch Fox news? really annoying when people make assumptions

you assumed I was talking about you. your name was not mentioned nor did I use the word you

[wellard]

Originally Posted by Firestormalpha Now you're assuming I watch Fox news? really annoying when people make assumptions

And are you claiming ... tell the truth here ... that you have never watched FOX news?

[Firestormalpha]

Nope, but I haven't watched it in the past several years. Most of my news comes from online articles.

And I fail to see how watching FOX and being educated have anything to do with each other, or is there some joke, subtle or otherwise, that I am missing?

[wellard]

What is really sad is that so many of our troops from the UK, Australia and the USA are fighting and dieing for democracy (to quote GW BUSH), and yet there are people ignorant of abuses of democracy on there own doorstep.

Are all these people fighting in vain? I hope not

[wellard]

Originally Posted by Firestormalpha Nope, but I haven't watched it in the past several years. Most of my news comes from online articles. And I fail to see how watching FOX and being educated have anything to do with each other

Actually FSA that was a very good answer, *applaud* (no sarcasm)

[Bungleau]

Sorry, Wellard.... they were NOT "republican party officials". They were election workers... by definition (as far as it can go), non-partisan. They did not work for or represent the republican party.

In fact, they crossed party lines in their own politics. Jaqueline Maiden, one of the two women and the third-ranking employee in the county, is a Democrat, and the other, Kathleen Dreamer, ballot manager, is a Republican.

The prosecutor in the case also made no claims that their actions impacted the results of the election.

For a source, I'll claim the Toledo Blade... a local Ohio newspaper from one of the larger cities (and about 90 minutes from Cleveland, located in Cuyahoga county which hosted the recount in question).

Ohio law states that during a recount each county is supposed to randomly count at least 3 percent of its ballots by hand and by machine. If there are not discrepancies in those counts, the rest of the votes can be recounted by machine. A full hand-count is ordered if two random samples result in differences.

So it's not like they picked specific votes to count. They counted 3% of the votes by machine and by hand, and the counts matched. Kerry actually gained 17 votes while Bush lost 6.

I've seen claims that "with six more votes in each precinct, Kerry would have won" and similar things. Those are simple fancy illogical math... with "one more dollar for every hour I was awake", I'd have $5,000 more every year. Doesn't mean that it would happen or that it has any relevance. Just a nice "what-if".

Florida's confusion was apparently because the media made its projections after the polls closed in the parts of the state in Eastern Time. Those in Central time still had an hour to go... shame on the media.

[wellard]

so now we have gone from "it never happened" to arguing the details of what did happen .... my work here is done

unless there are more people who still believe the world is flat or that no crimes against democracy have taken place

.... goes off to look under more rocks for those still burying there head

[Bungleau]

*shakes head* Huh? I'm not sure where "we" ever made such a leap, my friend. Or at least the "me" part of "we".

You're making untrue (that's a fact) and incendiary (that's an opinion) statements about what took place after the Ohio elections. I beg to differ.

What's the purpose you're trying to accomplish? Convince people to learn their news from one-sided blogs instead of one-sided (or other-sided) TV stations, or research to find the details from those with much less of an agenda?

I'm not sure how making untrue statements helps either way.

In any case, all American citizens of voting age need to go out today and make their voices heard by casting their votes. And better yet, they need to make sure they're casting educated votes as much as possible.

You don't vote, you give up the right to complain about the election results. At least, that's how it is in my book.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by wellard so now we have gone from "it never happened" to arguing the details of what did happen .... my work here is done unless there are more people who still believe the world is flat or that no crimes against democracy have taken place .... goes off to look under more rocks for those still burying there head

If your work is to continue spouting improper data and blowing it out of proportion, then it still isn't done since Bung and I continue to provide documentation to refute it. So your "work" will have to continue in a vain attempt to make it sound as if you have a legitimate case.

A quick rebuttal for now (due to lack of time). A more thorough one later as time permits.

Your claim is that the election was "stolen". That didn't happen. You claim that "republican party officials" are in jail for tampering with the vote count has been soundly refuted by Bung. The fact is that only two election officials (not Republican party officials) were found guilty of basically being too lazy to fully count the number of required ballots by hand. That is two officials in one county out of the entire state of Ohio. These ladies were relatively minor in the overall scheme of things and could not affect any votes outside their own county. So what little they did still had NO EFFECT on the votes from the other 98 counties in Ohio.

So, let's review. These were local election officials, not "Republican party officials". They were convicted of not counting the number of ballots by hand that they should have, not of deliberately and specifically swinging the vote in Bush's favor. In fact, Bung correctly pointed out thier actions actually favored Kerry's results, not Bush's, but it still wasn't enough for Kerry to win their county.

That solidly refutes your claims that the 2004 election was "stolen" in Ohio. Your correct that two minor election officials didn't perform their job as required, but the fact is their actions were NOT significant enough to affect or sway the entire state.

The Florida election has been refuted as well. Not only was the announcement of Gore's victory premature, there were also hundreds (if not thousands) of absentee ballots from military personnel that some election officials tried to prevent from being counted. These ballots were largely conservative in their voting. The fact is that the votes in Florida in 2000 did favor Bush when all the votes had finally been counted.

But, please, don't let these trivial facts detract your continued shouting from the rooftops. If nothing else, you have proven your tenacity in the face of contradicting evidence. It's too bad you're not conservative, you would make a great reporter for Fox News.