Off topic: Betrayal at Krondor

[Ziggurat]

There have been some questions about alternative games to Wiz 8. One of my very favorite is "Betrayal at Krondor" from the early '90s. You have first person perspective and 2 to 3 chars at any time (they change). It is very open and vast (movement gets more restricted as the plot progresses). It works in chapters with cut scenes and a good storyline. I still can play it on my old 386 using a DOS boot. This game compares favorably to the Wizardry games, IMO. Very complicated, good stat system, lots of quests, battles, secrets, traps, puzzles, etc.

Unfortunately, I have tried for many hours to get it to work under Win 98 with no success. I can get it to boot up (using help from the Net) but I can't get sound or mouse. DOSbox says it can't handle "memory protected" games. I can't seem to get the drivers to work (don't even know if I am using the right ones, the CDROM says it has no driver). You need to create a boot disk since it uses the old "expanded" memory and also uses 612KB of the 640 allowed under DOS. A tight mem fit, to be sure. If anyone knows a good way to get it to work, please let me know. Or, just let me know that you have done it, for encouragement to try again. My other half loves that game (and another oldie called "Loom").

[ 07-23-2003, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Ziggurat ]

[bowman_is_god]

I seem to remember playing this quite a while ago. Was it kinda slow, like the myst series? Probably a different game, it was at least 10 years ago.

[gator]

I still play some old DOS games on my Windows 98 machine sometimes. I believe I have it restart in DOS mode (from a PIF file IIRC) and it uses the config.sys and autoexec.bat that I have setup. It's been a few years since I did this, so if I have time in the next few days, I'll post back with what I find.

EDIT: ok, this is what I found. I was using a PIF file (a shortcut pointing to COMMAND.COM). This is what I have for the configuration.

Cmd Line: c:\windows\command.com
Working: c:\windows

Advanced:
"MS-DOS mode" checked
"Warn before entering MS-DOS mode" checked
"Specify a new MS-DOS configuration" selected

Config.sys configuration:
DOS=HIGH,UMB
buffershigh=10
fcbshigh=4
fileshigh=30
lastdrivehigh=Z
stackshigh=9,256
Device=C:\WINDOWS\Himem.Sys
DeviceHigh=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.Exe RAM
rem Device=C:\CDROM\CDTECH.SYS /D:MSCD001 /UDMA2 /V

Autoexec.bat configuration:
rem @ECHO OFF
SET TMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
SET TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
SET PROMPT=$p$g
SET winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\PK
SET SB16SND=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
rem LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001 /M:10
LH C:\MOUSE\CLOAKING
C:\MOUSE\MOUSE

The CD lines were remmed out to save on memory, so you will need to put them back in if using a CD-ROM in DOS mode. The mouse lines IIRC are for a DOS mouse driver or something like that, but you will need to have the programs on your computer.

Hope this helps!

[ 07-24-2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: gator ]

[HolyWarrior]

I've played Betrayal in Antara, and if Krondor uses the same engine, then it is UTTER CRAP! A horrible, horrible game

[yoodaa]

Originally posted by HolyWarrior: I've played Betrayal in Antara, and if Krondor uses the same engine, then it is UTTER CRAP! A horrible, horrible game

Oh boy...Betrayal in Antara and Betrayal at Krondor (BaK) might use the same engine, but they vastly differ in quality. Betrayal at Krondor was a sleeper hit in 1993. The game was great, but sales weren't too good (marketing mishap?) Anyway, when talks of a sequel came up, Sierra didn't get the rights to do it. However, Sierra still had the engine for BaK, so they tried to cash in on it. The result was the lifeless game known as Betrayal in Antara. They couldn't replace the great story or rich setting of Krondor, which really made BiA horrible.

What really sucks is that BaK's sequel, Return to Krondor, paled in comparison to BaK. RtK suffered from being moved between too many development teams (one dev team got bought or went bankrupt or something). It really showed, because the early chapters were detailed, fleshed with sidequests and fun; whereas the later chapers felt rushed. Too bad Betrayal at Krondor 2 wasn't meant to be.

[Ziggurat]

Thanks, Gator. That is similar to what I have been trying with autoexec.bat and config.sys but I'm not using a .pif file (a boot disk instead). I'll try that. I think I can do without the CDROM. Finding the mouse and sound are the challenge.

BaK is the closest old game to Wiz 8 (better graphics than 7). The graphic resolution is much less but other than that it was equal in replayability, IMO, though different. You couldn't create characters, for one. But you could choose how strong to make them in various stats. Yes, it was a might slow back then, especially reloading a game, but so was Wiz 7. The music is superior, compositionally. Opening the chests was a joy, at one point you could learn to read Elvish to do some of them. The traps were fun, too. Treasure was hidden everywhere.

Guess I'll just put the old computer back together if I can't get the pif idea to work.

[EEWorzelle]

I like the Krondor game and finished it without hints. There is no magic (tee hee). I remember that I had a complicated autoexec bat that would start the computer with different memory configurations depending upon which game or other program I was going to play. I would say get DOS (can it still be gotten?) DOS 5.0 or 6.0 would do. I know the later Intel machines will run it, not sure if AMD decided to support it. You can create a separate HD for it and plug it in when you want to play or do a dual-boot, using various tools out there. I only suggest these things if the solution above doesn't fly. I hope it does.

I purchased Betrayal at Antara before checking out reviews of what others had to say about it. I had alternatives to play and was not encouraged by what others had to say about it. I think my copy still has the original shrink-wrap on it.

Betrayal at crondor was an experiment bringing a fantasy book into a computer game with direct assistance by the original author. I think Betrayal at Antara was by the same company, but they either wanted to cut the author out of the profits or the author balked and wanted nothing more to do with it. Raymond E. Feist, or something like that, was his name, I think. Decent books, too. Anyway, there was Return to Krondor, much later, but I'm afraid my copy of that one still has the shrink-wrap on it, too.

[ 07-25-2003, 01:31 AM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

[Ziggurat]

Thanks, EEW. We have a kindred appreciation of this game (BaK). I also used multiple boot options back then (for playing games) when Win 3.1 came out. The good news: I got the old computer running and we are playing it now!

Betrayal at Antara was a dog. Return to Krondor was better (than Antara), but you are right about its limitations later. Return to Krondor could not match the workings and thoughtfulness of the original game.

Raymond E. Feist is a first rate writer, most of the time. We love his books. This game was an inspiration to check out his writing. Hadn't heard of him before this. We were not disapointed. He only had one bad egg, IMO (the Faerie Tale). His Silver Talon latest book is terrific. You can skip his attempts to reproduce Betrayal and Return to Krondor. His other stuff is much better.

I recommend all his early works if you like sword and sorcery.

I also like your reference, "there is no magic". This was mentioned and developed upon by a certain Nakor (in "Prince of the Blood"). A really fun character.

[gator]

*OT* I think I read up to Prince of the Blood like a decade ago. Just wondering if it is worth reading the later books (after Prince of the Blood). I really enjoyed the first two series.

[yoodaa]

Originally posted by gator: *OT* I think I read up to Prince of the Blood like a decade ago. Just wondering if it is worth reading the later books (after Prince of the Blood). I really enjoyed the first two series.

Do read the later books; if anything, at least read the SerpentWar Saga (starts with Shadow of a Dark Queen). And if you've played the games, then you might also want to read the RiftWar Legacy series (starts with Krondor - the Betrayal). What's neat is how the books complement the games and vice versa. It's really noticeable with Return to Krondor and Tear of the Gods. The book brings up the game a notch with the additional subplots and character development.