for our Texas friends (even Aggies)

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Sazerac: Oh, man, Epona, where to start??? OK..."Aggies" are students of Texas Agricultural & Mechanical University (Texas A&M for short). For some reason they got the reputation of being the dumbest things short of owl excrement at some point in time in the past, and since then have been the brunt of "dumb" jokes the same as "blondes" have been. Pretty much, you can take any "blonde" joke, substitute "aggie" for "blonde" and recycle the joke. For the life of me, I've never understood why they got this rep, especially as Texas A&M has a very prestigious engineering school. I think it has something to do with the military cadets there, since most cartoons about Aggies show a charicature of a gimp-nosed "goober" of a military cadet, kind of a "Gomer Pyle" type person. That's the humor of Aggies using the 610 loop in Houston...it goes around forever in a circle. Some typical aggie jokes: Aggie (calling campus police): I want to report a robbery... Police dispatch officer: Ok, sir, what was stolen? Aggie (frantically): They got my entire pot stash and all my plants! Police dispatch officer: Don't move, sir, we're coming right over. I've got five squad cars heading there right now. Aggie (relieved): Oh, thank you. Thank heavens, they missed all my cocaine! Two aggies were talking, and one was telling the other about a girl who had given him a ride. "So we're out riding in the country, and she stops the car, and gets out, takes off all her clothes, and tells me, 'You can have anything that you want!' So, I take her car." The other one says, "You did the right thing, man...her clothes probably wouldn't have fit you anyway." What do you call 10 aggies in a classroom? A kindergarten. How many aggies does it take to change a lightbulb? 100...one to hold the lightbulb, and 99 to turn the building round and round. I think you get the idea!

Sounds like our Ostfriesenwitze (Ostfriesland is some islands in the North Sea near the border to Holland, Witz means joke). For some reason people from Ostfriesland have the reputation of being complete idiots, morons without an ounce of common sense. There are thousands of jokes about them, I generally dislike telling them but this is one:

A German, an English and an Ostfriese were stranded on a small island 50km from shore. There was no food. After a while the German says: "There's no point in starving here, I'll try to swim to shore. And if I drown, well, I'll die anyway so why wait here to starve?" He swims out 10km and then gets tired and drowns. Some time after that, the English says "Now I'll try to swim to shore." He swims out 20km and then drowns. Finally the Ostfriese decides to swim to shore. He swims out 25km, thinks "This is too far, I won't make it", so he swims back to the island.

About the sports - I haven't noticed anything of the kind in Europe, is this only in America that schools have to be good at sports?

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I am the great Kazara

[Nerull]

Originally posted by Kaz: Sounds like our Ostfriesenwitze (Ostfriesland is some islands in the North Sea near the border to Holland, Witz means joke). For some reason people from Ostfriesland have the reputation of being complete idiots, morons without an ounce of common sense.

Yep, that is the exact reputation that Aggies have. Any sort of "stupid person" joke works for an Aggie.

Originally posted by Kaz: About the sports - I haven't noticed anything of the kind in Europe, is this only in America that schools have to be good at sports?

I can't speak for other countries, but in America recognition and reputation is everything, especially if that reputation is as a "winner" or "being the best." Americans look down their nose at losers (there are many people who will side with whichever side looks like it will win, rather than the one that most fits them, just so they can be on the "winning side"). That's why the Dallas Cowboys now have the moniker "America's Team"; during the 1990s, they were so dominant that much of the public just became Cowboys fans (meanwhile, these same people switched to the Denver Broncos when Elway was making his last run, and they had a dominant team).

Extending this to colleges and universities, sports in the one sure road to recognition for most colleges. Sure, you have places like Harvard, who have many graduates in positions of power (in effect, many of them are viewed as "winners" due to their financial success), but most colleges just do not have the national recognition that Harvard commands. Sure, when you look at going to a university, you look to see which school has the best certifications and programs in your field, but does the average citizen or employer who is out in the working world? Most times not.

Instead, they jump on names they recognize, and that is where sports come in. Sports act as a advertising for the school; people will see the school name and recognize it, especially if their football team just went to a bowl game (i.e. was a "winner"). For example, from what I have seen, UTSA has a much better Business program (academically) than Florida State. UTSA does not have a football team; Florida State has the best team in the country. I graduate from UTSA with an MBA, and another guy with otherwise equal qualifications graduates with an MBA from Florida State. We both interview for the same job. Who will get the job? Chances are it will be the guy from Florida State, simply because the employer will recognize the school on his resume, and as such his schooling is considered "better" than mine (even though quite the opposite is true).

It's gotten so bad now that kids are being pressured by parents to become "super kids." They have to be perfect academically and have all kinds of extracurricular activities (including sports; hey, they give free scholarships to top athletes, and athletes are extremely well-paid) so that they will be more "attractive" to employers when they get out of college. The parents push their kids to be best at everything, and attack anyone that gets in their kid's way. Give a kid a (deserved) bad grade, and you will have the parents in the principal's office with lawyers threatening to sue (in some cases this is an exaggeration, but this has actually happened before). At little league sporting events, the parents will jump on referees for making what they see as bad calls (i.e. any call against their kid's team, especially if it is against their kid); there have been instances of violence against referees and teachers for just doing their job. In fact, a recent survey here in America found that the majority of school age children believe that cheating is okay, as long as it helps them obtain their goals.

In other words, Americans are hyper-competitive (like this is a surprise to anyone). Any sort of edge helps. And if your school can gain greater recognition by fielding a good football team, then do it (take the money out of the library and technology upgrade funds, and build a powerhouse team). That is the philosophy here in America.

Ready to move here now?


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Death is only the beginning...

Yep, that is the exact reputation that Aggies have. Any sort of "stupid person" joke works for an Aggie.

Now is this a national thing or just a Texas thing and does it stem from the reputations of graduates, the reps of its students or the reps of the sports teams over the years because I (in all honesty) have never heard any Aggie jokes that I remember anyway until they were posted here.
In most of the places I have lived throughout the U.S. Texas A&M has been a reputable school, the exception being AZ where Wildcats rule.

I am not taking the defensive because I will be going there but just asking where the reputation developed because I seriously haven't been exposed to derogatory Aggie jokes for as long as I can remember being alive, or due to the fact that I don't register those types of things as important enough to remember, have forgotten ever seeing or hearing any. All of the Texas A&M grads that I know (less than ten actually) enjoy good reputations as intelligent people and have excellent jobs with good pay.
Thanks


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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

[Kaz]

Hi Moni!
I just realized that Germany may not have this sports fixation because under the Nazis, sport was VERY important. You needed to have a special sports degree to get a JOB, for heaven's sake! Anyway, Germany is banishing everything that might be associated with Nazis, so that might be a reason. If it was important, I suppose I'd have good chances - my school were the winners of Youth trains for Olympia - Basketball for Lower Saxony two years in a row .
I am not planning to move to the US but I am considering going there on an exchange visit. In 11th grade many German pupils go to other countries on exchange and I am planning to go to the US.

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I am the great Kazara

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Nerull: Extending this to colleges and universities, sports in the one sure road to recognition for most colleges. Sure, you have places like Harvard, who have many graduates in positions of power (in effect, many of them are viewed as "winners" due to their financial success), but most colleges just do not have the national recognition that Harvard commands. Sure, when you look at going to a university, you look to see which school has the best certifications and programs in your field, but does the average citizen or employer who is out in the working world? Most times not. Instead, they jump on names they recognize, and that is where sports come in. Sports act as a advertising for the school; people will see the school name and recognize it, especially if their football team just went to a bowl game (i.e. was a "winner"). For example, from what I have seen, UTSA has a much better Business program (academically) than Florida State. UTSA does not have a football team; Florida State has the best team in the country. I graduate from UTSA with an MBA, and another guy with otherwise equal qualifications graduates with an MBA from Florida State. We both interview for the same job. Who will get the job? Chances are it will be the guy from Florida State, simply because the employer will recognize the school on his resume, and as such his schooling is considered "better" than mine (even though quite the opposite is true). In other words, Americans are hyper-competitive (like this is a surprise to anyone). Any sort of edge helps. And if your school can gain greater recognition by fielding a good football team, then do it (take the money out of the library and technology upgrade funds, and build a powerhouse team). That is the philosophy here in America.

Nerull

I have to agree and disagree.

I agree that schools do look to further their sports teams at the expense of other more important programs, but I disagree as to the motive. Universities will funnel funds to the big programs like football and basketball in the hopes that the returns will be greater than the costs. If a football team makes it to a bowl game, then the University receives money from the TV networks and from ticket sales. A bowl appearence (or NCAA Basketball post season invite), will also 'advertise' the University for new recruits (not only for sports but for all students). I believe that sports are used as a recruiting tool for students, not as an employment criteria for employers.

If a student is looking at two schools with matching programs (i.e. between two good biology programs), they are more likely to base their decision on the sports teams recognition. If given the choice between say Nebraska and Iowa one might choose Nebraska merely b/c they have a better football team. Am I making sense?

As for employers choosing between two candidates, I don't think they go for name recognition based on sports as much as thought. Most employers that are hiring for degreed positions could care less about the sports programs of the schools that the applicants attended. They are more likely to look for applicants from their Alma Mader(sp). Certainly an employer that may hire MBA grads knows that UTSA is a better business school than FSU and would therefore hire the UTSA grad. The majority of employers that care that much about sports, are not hiring college grads, but rather technical school or HS grads.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time

[Nerull]

Originally posted by Moni: Now is this a national thing or just a Texas thing and does it stem from the reputations of graduates, the reps of its students or the reps of the sports teams over the years because I (in all honesty) have never heard any Aggie jokes that I remember anyway until they were posted here.

Just in Texas (well, it spills over to Oklahoma, too; however, Oklahoma has a rivalry with Texas in general). I would not doubt that this reputation was spread by UT students long ago, probably after losing to A&M in the annual football game, and it has just spread (and stuck) ever since. I think it stems from the fact that the A in A&M stands for Agricultural, and they look down on them for that (the whole stereotype about rednecks and stupidity, which is just that, a stereotype). One of the major functions of the school in the early days (we are talking back over a hundred years ago) was to teach farmers how to farm better. Now it is a major center for agricultural research (breeding tomatoes that can grow in harsher environments, etc.). They have a good engineering department (especially in mechanical engineering; the M stands for Mechanical). However, they have slipped a little in recent years (not sure why, but they really haven't slipped by much).

The main UT campus is located in the capital (Austin), which is something of a cultural center in Texas (theaters, music scene, restaurants with a huge variety of cuisines, etc.). The main Texas A&M campus is located in College Station, which is essentially a farming town that grew up around A&M. That's why I think that UT looks down its nose at A&M, and that's why the stereotype is perpetuated. Like I stated before, I think the reputation is undeserved, but I can't give A&M too much slack (or I will take a lot of abuse from my friends living in Austin! ).


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Death is only the beginning...

Originally posted by Kaz: Hi Moni! I just realized that Germany may not have this sports fixation because under the Nazis, sport was VERY important. You needed to have a special sports degree to get a JOB, for heaven's sake! Anyway, Germany is banishing everything that might be associated with Nazis, so that might be a reason. If it was important, I suppose I'd have good chances - my school were the winners of Youth trains for Olympia - Basketball for Lower Saxony two years in a row . I am not planning to move to the US but I am considering going there on an exchange visit. In 11th grade many German pupils go to other countries on exchange and I am planning to go to the US.

Well, if you end up in Texas, let me know! I'd love to meet you!




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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

Originally posted by Nerull: Just in Texas (well, it spills over to Oklahoma, too; however, Oklahoma has a rivalry with Texas in general).

Oh! OK! I have only been here two years now and I haven't really gotten out much since I have been here. With going back to school again, I imagine that will change.

I would not doubt that this reputation was spread by UT students long ago, probably after losing to A&M in the annual football game, and it has just spread (and stuck) ever since. I think it stems from the fact that the A in A&M stands for Agricultural, and they look down on them for that (the whole stereotype about rednecks and stupidity, which is just that, a stereotype).

You are probably right.

I can't give A&M too much slack (or I will take a lot of abuse from my friends living in Austin! ).

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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!