Religeons in ironworks

[J'aran]

Originally posted by Vaskez: quote: Originally posted by WillowIX: quote: Originally posted by Vaskez: You just contradicted yourself then. You can't be a Christian and an atheist. A Christian believes that there is a God and Jesus died for their sins and they have commited their lives to God. An Atheist believes there is no God.

I know I did silly! [img]tongue.gif[/img] That´s the whole point in a religious debate. So if Christian believes that, what does everyone else believe? [img]tongue.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Is it? Guess I must be missing the point then [img]tongue.gif[/img]
What do you mean what does everyone else believe? We've just been discussing that on this thread [img]tongue.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]My guess is that his name is Christian, but by belief he's an atheist. Or am I seeing too much in this...?

EDIT: Blah, never mind. I really need to learn how to type faster.

[ 05-06-2003, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: J'aran ]

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by J'aran: My guess is that his name is Christian, but by belief he's an atheist. Or am I seeing too much in this...?

Well that is what I was after. But if you refer to me by "his" and "Christian" you are way of target.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Vaskez: quote: Originally posted by Grojlach: Somewhere between "don't care" and atheism...

How's that workin out for you, Groj? Good? [/QUOTE]Awg... Atheism could imply that I actually care about believing in no God at all, but I actually don't. More of a passive atheist, really; I don't believe in anything, but I won't try to convince anyone else of that nor ever participate in tiresome and useless religious debates... It'll probably have a positive effect in the longer run on my blood pressure, so I suppose it's working out just fine for me.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Reeka: I'm interested in hearing more about the various pagan/wiccan covenants. I never heard that before. It sounds fascinating. I hope that did not sound disrepectful, that was not my intent.

'Pagan' essentially refers to any European religion that existed before the inception of christianity (excepting Judaism of course). The term has been demonized by most christian preachers almost to the point of being derogatory, essentially giving it connotations of being primitive and uncouth.

Now, because the modern use of the term 'Pagan' refers to so many different dynamic, complex and ancient beliefs (from the state-sponsered religion of the ancient Roman Empire, to the Pantheon of the Vikings, to the priesthood of Innana Ishtar of ancient Mesopotamia) it is impossible to really put a definite idea of what constitutes 'a pagan religion', as there are far too many varied religions to compare. One thing is for certain though, the Christian Church owes it's modern (un)popularity to the Pagan Priesthood of ancient Rome, as essentially all methods of Church bureaucracy, population control, sponsership, worship and prayer that were refined to such an effective degree by the Roman Pagans were adopted by the Roman Catholic Church right from word go ('word go' being the official adoption of christianity as the new state religion of Rome in 392 AD). Subsequently, the ironically merciless persecution of all non-Christians within the empire essentially beat the theoretical ideals of christianity into the heads of all Roman subjects. This made possible the religion's great exportability (essentially a mindset along the lines of 'Love Christ or his followers will butcher you and your family!' [img]smile.gif[/img] ), and permanently transformed christianity from a largely overlooked provincial 'cult of the messiah' into the
widespread social institution it has become today.

The term 'Pagan' essentially originates from the time of Christian persecution of all non-christian religions. Think of the early Christian Church as a mob of violent neo-Pagans, adorned with a new self-righteousness sweeping the provinces of Rome, ferreting out all those who oppose the idea of worshipping a messiah who was essentially viewed by a great deal of the population as simply 'some guy from Judea that lived hundreds of years ago that thought he was the son of a God', labelling these 'unfaithful' people as 'Pagan', and killing them. This all happened some 1600 years ago, yet it still happens today, funnily enough. Take a trip to Rome and you can bear witness to the adoration of idols within the Catholic priesthood. Take a trip to London and gaze in awe at the lavish, dominating imperial visage of Anglican Westminster Abbey. We all still live very much by our Pagan lusts and prejudices. Yet the thing is, us Pagans don't try and make ourselves feel guilty about it

No worries mate [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by WillowIX: quote: Originally posted by J'aran: My guess is that his name is Christian, but by belief he's an atheist. Or am I seeing too much in this...?

Well that is what I was after. But if you refer to me by "his" and "Christian" you are way of target. [/QUOTE]Oh ok I completely missed that pun. I thought you missed the "s" off Christians by mistake, bleh!

You suppressing your masculine side Willow?

Groj - good point about the blood pressure - debates can be quite stressful....as if I need more stress right now with all this uni work. *sigh*

[ 05-06-2003, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

[harleyquinn]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Don't worry, Stormymystic, you are not the only Wiccan on this forum. I know of a few others.

Stormy, I'm not wiccan (I'm athiest), but my best friend is.

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by WillowIX: quote: Originally posted by Vaskez: Is it? Guess I must be missing the point then [img]tongue.gif[/img] What do you mean what does everyone else believe? We've just been discussing that on this thread [img]tongue.gif[/img]

*sigh* Explaining a joke shouldn´t be necessary. You do know that Christian is a name right? So I was playing with words. You said Christian believes this and that. That could also mean that one single person believed what you said. Get it? [img]tongue.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]*sigh* I said "A Christian" not "Christian" [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Arnabas]

You have another Pagan here!
My wife is Catholic (from the Philippines), but we've worked things out nicely. We'll both be teaching our beliefs to our son (when he's old enough) and we'll let him decide for himself.

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Vaskez: *sigh* I said "A Christian" not "Christian" [img]tongue.gif[/img]

So you think there is only one person named Christian in the entire world? I doubt it and therefore the pun still stands. We have A Vaskez here for instance. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Is Wiccan beliefs a religion BTW?

[Cloudbringer]

I am a Christian. More specifically, a practing Christian. [img]smile.gif[/img] Over the years, I've found that there are many folk who will happily SAY they are this or that, but don't actually follow the tenets of their faith in daily life or attend services (if their religious beliefs call for it, which mine do).

I remember an article in one of our local papers last year said that something like 57% or more of people in some national poll (USA) claimed to be Christian, but those who actually read the Bible or attended church services or acknowledged Jesus were a tiny percent of that. The conclusion my friends and I came to is that you can call yourself anything, but it's what you do and how you do it that paints the real picture. [img]smile.gif[/img]